How do I go about purchasing hardware and software?

[Guy Bacos]

Hi,

I've been working on somebody's G5 with VSL for the last 2 years. I am a serious composer but nil with hardware and software. I am now on my own and is looking to purchase my own equipement. All I know is I want the "Complete Orchestral Package" to fit my needs. I don't know about the type of G5 and Exs 24 or Giga stuff in terms of shopping and installing it.

Can someone tell me how to shop this or what would be a good set up. By the way I write very orchestral and memory is a big factor. A listing of what I should get would be appreciated.

Thanks

Guy (Someone stuck)

[Inteleky]

Well if you must load many samples then you will need the most amount of memory possible. Gigastudio only runs on a PC, and does not support 64-bits yet, which means the max memory you can use for giga is around 1.5 gigs, even if you have 64 bit windows and eight gigs of ram installed. However, you will get faster clock CPU clock speeds with a PC which almost makes up for ram factor.

The new latest and greatest dual 2.7 g5 with Logic Pro 7 (and hence exs), both of which are 64-bit, can address up to 8 gigs of memory silmultaneously. This is an advantage because samples love lots of memory. However, it is debatable whether this approach is necessraily 'better' than a PC.

So it all comes down to which platform, i.e. Mac or PC, you are comfortable with. Either way, max out the ram and use a RAID 0 array to store your samples on.

[DG]

@Inteleky said:

The new latest and greatest dual 2.7 g5 with Logic Pro 7 (and hence exs), both of which are 64-bit, can address up to 8 gigs of memory silmultaneously. This is an advantage because samples love lots of memory. However, it is debatable whether this approach is necessraily 'better' than a PC.

Can Logic really address up to 8 Gb? I thought that in practice it maxed out at about 3.7Gb.

DG

[irvind]

Check this out: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/09/16/apple_dual-core_g5/

[Guy Bacos]

@Inteleky said:

The new latest and greatest dual 2.7 g5 with Logic Pro 7 (and hence exs), both of which are 64-bit, can address up to 8 gigs of memory silmultaneously. This is an advantage because samples love lots of memory.

Ok that is the one I was gearing towards. Now I know I need the dual 2.7 g5 and I also know I want the VSL Complete Orchestral Package. Obviously there's more to it, what about Logic Pro 7, exs, are these software I must purchase seperatly? Are they tricky to install? Is there anything else I need?

Thanks

Guy, Somebody learning

[plowman]

If anyone can address 8 GB of sample memory in a G5 / 10.4.2 / Logic 7.1, I'd love to hear about it. But I don't think it can be done presently. It pins out at around 3.7 or so, no matter how much memory you have. Someday, that will change.

EXS is a component of Logic, and you can't get one without the other (anymore).

It's not easy to find "deals" on anything related to Apple. Currently there's a 500 USD rebate for buying Logic and a G5 2.3 together.

Installing is the easy part. Beyond it, there is a learning curve, and it can get steep when dealing with multiple instances on a single track (which is how most orchestral composers approach EXS).

Beyond that, most users buy a sound card. Otherwise, you'd be limited to the G5's built-in audio out.

[Guy Bacos]

@Plowman said:

If anyone can address 8 GB of sample memory in a G5 / 10.4.2 / Logic 7.1, I'd love to hear about it. But I don't think it can be done presently. It pins out at around 3.7 or so, no matter how much memory you have. Someday, that will change.

EXS is a component of Logic, and you can't get one without the other (anymore).

It's not easy to find "deals" on anything related to Apple. Currently there's a 500 USD rebate for buying Logic and a G5 2.3 together.

Installing is the easy part. Beyond it, there is a learning curve, and it can get steep when dealing with multiple instances on a single track (which is how most orchestral composers approach EXS).

Beyond that, most users buy a sound card. Otherwise, you'd be limited to the G5's built-in audio out.

Thanks Plowman, that is very helpful. Just a few questions though:

Are you saying it's not worth getting more than 4 GB of sample memory at the moment?

What's a sound card?

Thanks for the scoop about purchasing Logic with G5. Good to know.

[Inteleky]

I should have put 'theoretically' in the sentence where I said Logic can access 8 gigs [:P]

But 3.7 gigs is still a bit more than twice as much as what giga tops out at.

Guy: If you buy the g5, and logic uses 3.7 gigs, you still need at least 1-2 more gigs of head room ram for everything else OS 10.4 does. IMO you can never have enough ram. Considering you want to do massive projects, the more ram you buy, the happier you will be performance wise. Of course that depends on your budget and so forth. But if sky is the limit, go for it mate!

[DG]

@Inteleky said:

I should have put 'theoretically' in the sentence where I said Logic can access 8 gigs [:P]

But 3.7 gigs is still a bit more than twice as much as what giga tops out at.

It's not even as simple as that. Yes, 3.7 Gb is twice as much as GS, but there are two other things that you must bear in mind. Firstly this assumes that Logic itself doesn't need any RAM. Secondly that the sample buffering is as efficient in Logic as it is in GS.

Another point is that when sequencer and sampler are on the same computer there are other issues, such as CPU use. I would still always advise a separate PC for sample use, no matter what sequencer you use. Once you have paid for all the extra RAM in the Mac I doubt that the performance would be anywhere near as good as using two machines.

DG

[rawmusic]

As a fairly impartial computer user versed in both platforms, I might just throw in my little bit. Mac and Logic (with the EXS24 sampler as part of Logic) gives you a wonderfully integrated system that i think you are already familiar with. Inspite of faster clock speeds on PC, there is no argument as to which is better to have. In terms of cost, PCs are cheaper but do you get what you pay for? Logic is not available on PC. GS is not available on mac.

My personal taste here, flying in the face of Mr PC (no pun) is to go for the fastest mac you can and get logic. If you are involved in education, you may well be eligible for a discount on all products, including the VSL package.

Good luck. I wish I had the money to spend to go for a package like this!!!

[Guy Bacos]

More thanks to all the replies, Couldn't do this without your help.

I could live with out having the best of the best which seems 2 machines would be it. Although if anybody does have that set up I'd like to hear about it. I'd just want to make sure I don't have to constantly "freeze" my tracks or get the "too dense" warning on a regular basis. I find that so annoying. I must be able to get to 100 tracks with VSL samples smoothly.
So I understand I would need this:

-Duel 2.7 G5

-3.7GB + 1 or 2 GB = approx. 6 Gb of sample memory

-Logic

-Complete Orchestral Package


Is that right? Do I need anything else?

BTW, Plowman mentioned a sound card. What is it?

Guy

[Martin Bayless]

Guy, as you're beginning to find out, there is a significant learning curve to go through with these things. Your present choices are good ones, but not necessarily the only way to go. Everything depends on what you want to accomplish and how you want to work within a given budget. The only reference I have to go on is the anxiety of freezing tracks which suggests that you might be looking for a system that takes more than one machine. I presently use five, but I'm sure there are others who use even more; and to be fair, many get great results with less. Perhaps if you could give us an idea of what you want to do, we could help you get to your goals a little more efficiently.

[Martin Bayless]

Oh yeah, a sound card can be either hardware that is installed in your machine, or a separate audio interface that attaches to your computer's firewire port. There are interfaces that attach to the USB port, but the general concensus is that these are inadequate for what most are doing with VSL. Additionally, you will probably need to give somee thought to how you want to enter data into the computer. If you want to use a keyboard (think piano not computer keyboard) then a midi interface will also be needed. There are several audio interfaces that also include basic midi capabilities, as well as maybe 2-3 actual keyboards with all this stuff built in. Hope this helps (although you're probably already startiing to suffer from information overload). Don't worry though, we all had to get all this stuff down and lived through it - you will too!

[PaulR]

@Guy said:

-Duel 2.7 G5
-3.7GB + 1 or 2 GB = approx. 6 Gb of sample memory
-Logic
-Complete Orchestral Package
Is that right? Do I need anything else?
BTW, Plowman mentioned a sound card. What is it?
Guy

I would maybe just wait a while on a Mac 2.7 - great machine that it is. The new Mac duel cores maybe out fairly soon.

The sound card I use with a Mac 2.0 is Motu 828 MkII and they are excellent. Also, you will probably need soemthing like an AMT 8.

Regarding Ram - I would get more than say 3.5 to 4 gigs of ram - you may want to use Altiverb 5 for example, which is a software reverb unit. Otherwise, you would be using Space Designer that comes with the Logic package and not as good as Altiverb.

[Inteleky]

@Another User said:

Another point is that when sequencer and sampler are on the same computer there are other issues, such as CPU use. I would still always advise a separate PC for sample use, no matter what sequencer you use. Once you have paid for all the extra RAM in the Mac I doubt that the performance would be anywhere near as good as using two machines.

Thats a good point. I use logic as a sequencer only, and I use that to drive two slave PC's. My mac is only a dual 450 dp, and it does the trick just fine for that simple task. While the setup is more complex, it is preferable to an all in one solution. So, I have to agree with DG here.

About soundcards... I have found the Hammerfall 9636 to be the most flexible for my needs.

[irvind]

@Inteleky said:

I use logic as a sequencer only, and I use that to drive two slave PC's. My mac is only a dual 450 dp, and it does the trick just fine for that simple task. While the setup is more complex, it is preferable to an all in one solution.

On a practical level, isn't that annoying with loading up songs, backing-up etc? How does it work? And surely there's the cost of Gigasampler on the PC's to take into account?

Just curious, I'm buying a system soon to upgrade from the Powerbook, but still want a G5 (maybe dual-core..?) for softsynths etc.

[Guy Bacos]

Mac dual cores? What would be some important advantages over the dual 2.7?

Martin,

You asked what was my goal. It is for film music. I've been heavily working with VSL for the past 2 years now, the movie Eternal (2005) was done in big part by me using VSL mainly. But since I went my own way I don't have the equipement or a technician by my side anymore. I must now learn do do things on my own, like a big boy! But I'm a moron with computer set up.
That's why I'm asking these stupid questions, so I could soon make my own set up. But I'm not sure if you found your answer in this paragragh.

[irvind]

@Guy said:

Mac dual cores? What would be some important advantages over the dual 2.7?

http://www.thinksecret.com/news/0509g5.html

[Guy Bacos]

Mmm! This complicate things! It looks really tempting, and worth waiting for if of course if the price is reasonable. I guess nobody knows approx. when it would come out, 2005? 2006? Thanks.

[irvind]

@Guy said:

Mmm! This complicate things! It looks really tempting, and worth waiting for if of course if the price is reasonable. I guess nobody knows approx. when it would come out, 2005? 2006? Thanks.

Well, Apple are selling all existing stock (except the Dual 2.7Ghz) with 20% off at the refurb store (http://promo.euro.apple.com/promo/refurb/uk/ here in the UK) every day till the 3rd of October. So, it might not be that long before Dual Cores are released. With emphasis on the word "might". [:)]