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  3. How do I go about purchasing hardware and software?
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    As a fairly impartial computer user versed in both platforms, I might just throw in my little bit. Mac and Logic (with the EXS24 sampler as part of Logic) gives you a wonderfully integrated system that i think you are already familiar with. Inspite of faster clock speeds on PC, there is no argument as to which is better to have. In terms of cost, PCs are cheaper but do you get what you pay for? Logic is not available on PC. GS is not available on mac.

    My personal taste here, flying in the face of Mr PC (no pun) is to go for the fastest mac you can and get logic. If you are involved in education, you may well be eligible for a discount on all products, including the VSL package.

    Good luck. I wish I had the money to spend to go for a package like this!!!
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    More thanks to all the replies, Couldn't do this without your help.

    I could live with out having the best of the best which seems 2 machines would be it. Although if anybody does have that set up I'd like to hear about it. I'd just want to make sure I don't have to constantly "freeze" my tracks or get the "too dense" warning on a regular basis. I find that so annoying. I must be able to get to 100 tracks with VSL samples smoothly.
    So I understand I would need this:

    -Duel 2.7 G5

    -3.7GB + 1 or 2 GB = approx. 6 Gb of sample memory

    -Logic

    -Complete Orchestral Package


    Is that right? Do I need anything else?

    BTW, Plowman mentioned a sound card. What is it?

    Guy
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    Guy, as you're beginning to find out, there is a significant learning curve to go through with these things. Your present choices are good ones, but not necessarily the only way to go. Everything depends on what you want to accomplish and how you want to work within a given budget. The only reference I have to go on is the anxiety of freezing tracks which suggests that you might be looking for a system that takes more than one machine. I presently use five, but I'm sure there are others who use even more; and to be fair, many get great results with less. Perhaps if you could give us an idea of what you want to do, we could help you get to your goals a little more efficiently.
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    Oh yeah, a sound card can be either hardware that is installed in your machine, or a separate audio interface that attaches to your computer's firewire port. There are interfaces that attach to the USB port, but the general concensus is that these are inadequate for what most are doing with VSL. Additionally, you will probably need to give somee thought to how you want to enter data into the computer. If you want to use a keyboard (think piano not computer keyboard) then a midi interface will also be needed. There are several audio interfaces that also include basic midi capabilities, as well as maybe 2-3 actual keyboards with all this stuff built in. Hope this helps (although you're probably already startiing to suffer from information overload). Don't worry though, we all had to get all this stuff down and lived through it - you will too!
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    @Guy said:

    -Duel 2.7 G5
    -3.7GB + 1 or 2 GB = approx. 6 Gb of sample memory
    -Logic
    -Complete Orchestral Package
    Is that right? Do I need anything else?
    BTW, Plowman mentioned a sound card. What is it?
    Guy


    I would maybe just wait a while on a Mac 2.7 - great machine that it is. The new Mac duel cores maybe out fairly soon.

    The sound card I use with a Mac 2.0 is Motu 828 MkII and they are excellent. Also, you will probably need soemthing like an AMT 8.

    Regarding Ram - I would get more than say 3.5 to 4 gigs of ram - you may want to use Altiverb 5 for example, which is a software reverb unit. Otherwise, you would be using Space Designer that comes with the Logic package and not as good as Altiverb.
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    @Another User said:


    Another point is that when sequencer and sampler are on the same computer there are other issues, such as CPU use. I would still always advise a separate PC for sample use, no matter what sequencer you use. Once you have paid for all the extra RAM in the Mac I doubt that the performance would be anywhere near as good as using two machines.


    Thats a good point. I use logic as a sequencer only, and I use that to drive two slave PC's. My mac is only a dual 450 dp, and it does the trick just fine for that simple task. While the setup is more complex, it is preferable to an all in one solution. So, I have to agree with DG here.

    About soundcards... I have found the Hammerfall 9636 to be the most flexible for my needs.
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    @Inteleky said:


    I use logic as a sequencer only, and I use that to drive two slave PC's. My mac is only a dual 450 dp, and it does the trick just fine for that simple task. While the setup is more complex, it is preferable to an all in one solution.


    On a practical level, isn't that annoying with loading up songs, backing-up etc? How does it work? And surely there's the cost of Gigasampler on the PC's to take into account?

    Just curious, I'm buying a system soon to upgrade from the Powerbook, but still want a G5 (maybe dual-core..?) for softsynths etc.
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    Mac dual cores? What would be some important advantages over the dual 2.7?

    Martin,

    You asked what was my goal. It is for film music. I've been heavily working with VSL for the past 2 years now, the movie Eternal (2005) was done in big part by me using VSL mainly. But since I went my own way I don't have the equipement or a technician by my side anymore. I must now learn do do things on my own, like a big boy! But I'm a moron with computer set up.
    That's why I'm asking these stupid questions, so I could soon make my own set up. But I'm not sure if you found your answer in this paragragh.
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    @Guy said:

    Mac dual cores? What would be some important advantages over the dual 2.7?


    http://www.thinksecret.com/news/0509g5.html
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    Mmm! This complicate things! It looks really tempting, and worth waiting for if of course if the price is reasonable. I guess nobody knows approx. when it would come out, 2005? 2006? Thanks.
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    @Guy said:

    Mmm! This complicate things! It looks really tempting, and worth waiting for if of course if the price is reasonable. I guess nobody knows approx. when it would come out, 2005? 2006? Thanks.


    Well, Apple are selling all existing stock (except the Dual 2.7Ghz) with 20% off at the refurb store (http://promo.euro.apple.com/promo/refurb/uk/ here in the UK) every day till the 3rd of October. So, it might not be that long before Dual Cores are released. With emphasis on the word "might". [:)]
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    @irvind said:

    \\On a practical level, isn't that annoying with loading up songs, backing-up etc? How does it work? And surely there's the cost of Gigasampler on the PC's to take into account?

    Just curious, I'm buying a system soon to upgrade from the Powerbook, but still want a G5 (maybe dual-core..?) for softsynths etc.


    Well, its not really that annoying. I turn on all three computers, open logic on the mac, open giga on one pc, kompakt east west stuff on the other, and then I'm ready to go.

    It's quite simple really. the mac sends the midi data to the two pc's with MidiOverLan, and the kompakt computer sends its audio through the ADAT out of a Hammerfall 9636 into giga's inputs through the ADAT in the other 9636.

    Of course this was not a cheap solution. But this is not a cheap profession either [:)] Anyway, I built my own PC's, and spent so that was not as expensive as it could have been. Plus the Dual 450 G4 is perfect for a sequencer only setup, and of course Logic is a great sequencer.

    As far as backups are concerned, its the same as any other system. I don't need to backup audio files, just the Logic, Giga, and Performance Tool sessions, but thats not really a pain.

    I think the bottom line is if you are going to spend top dollar on a new mac, you should wait if you can manage it. The intel macs are going to be more bang for the buck, thats for sure. This is the first mac, in a long time, that will not use a custom made processor. What this means is that they can use Intel's market saturation and cut costs significantly.
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    @Inteleky said:


    Of course this was not a cheap solution. But this is not a cheap profession either [:)]



    Of course one could look at it another way. It is far cheaper to sequence stuff so that other people can have a good idea what the sound is, compared with the old fashioned route of hiring an orchestra. It also means that more people get a chance to write than ever before, which is a mixed blessing as IMO there is no more good music about than there used to be; only more "composers".

    DG
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    @Guy said:

    I must now learn do do things on my own, like a big boy! But I'm a moron with computer set up.


    I feel your pain. I am as computer illetarate as you can get, but I've been hanging around the forum for a couple weeks. You do learn a lot here! But I still feel like a moron most of the time. Things are going to change, though.
    Keep dropping by, you can always learn from others' questions.... I am learning from yours (though I work with PC).
    As far as I understand the sound card is what enables your computer to "read" the sounds. In other words, it translates the sound info into ones and zeroes that the computer understands... It allows for input and output of sound. (please, anybody, feel free to correct or expand my definition)
    Regards,

    J Marcos
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    J Marcos,

    Thanks for the encouragement. I'm feeling better already, so many terms I now understand: RAM, ROM, CPU, Hard drive and a few more (not too many more...) enough to feel less of a moron though. This makes me appreciate more the advice given here.

    It was mentioned that 3.7 Gig was the max..., why is that? Anyone?

    Guy

    Semi-moron
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    @Another User said:

    Of course one could look at it another way. It is far cheaper to sequence stuff so that other people can have a good idea what the sound is, compared with the old fashioned route of hiring an orchestra. It also means that more people get a chance to write than ever before, which is a mixed blessing as IMO there is no more good music about than there used to be; only more "composers".

    DG


    That is true. hiring an orchestra is rediculously expensive, and for good reason. But for most of us, the orchestra is a luxury we will rarely get to have. So in that sense, its better to shell out $15,000 USD one time on a nice home studio and have a beautiful orchestra at your fingertips.

    Of course the downside is, orchestras loose money. However, in some sense VSL is the orchestra for the common composer, albiet it takes quite an initial sacrifice to get the library in the first place. [:P] In my case, I'm just incredibly lucky and grateful for that luck.


    Guy:

    I wish I could answer why Logic tops off at 3.7 gigs. But that is still quite alot. With a nice SATA RAID 0 array to store your samples on, and 3.7 gigs of RAM to load the samples to?... You will be a happy person, no doubt!!
  • H
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    Guy,
    Stay with us, and don't feel discouraged. There is some great information in this site that will definitely help in the programming journey. I respectfully suggest you browse the Giga forum and look for posts by David Govett, a very talented fellow who knows much about Giga. He's not always here, but drops in from time to time to answer questions and help. (Very decent thing to do.) In addition, in that forum, there's much discussion about hardware, and bits that work and don't work.

    Regards, and good luck,

    Alex.
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    @Guy said:


    Martin,

    You asked what was my goal. It is for film music. I've been heavily working with VSL for the past 2 years now, the movie Eternal (2005) was done in big part by me using VSL mainly. But since I went my own way I don't have the equipement or a technician by my side anymore. I must now learn do do things on my own, like a big boy! But I'm a moron with computer set up.
    That's why I'm asking these stupid questions, so I could soon make my own set up. But I'm not sure if you found your answer in this paragragh.


    Hi Guy - not stupid questions at all, yet I perhaps should have been clearer in my questions because I wasn't really looking for the film music answer so much. In other words, do you want to have a whole ton of articulations and all the instruments of the orchestra all loaded up at once, or are you comfortable loading up just those you need at a given tiime? What is your prefered working method? Do you sketch to paper then orchestrate (paper, notation program?) then render to a sequencer? Or do you want to do it all in one program? There are not right or wrong answers, but deciding what you want to do may help clarify which of several directions you may want to head.
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    @Martin Bayless said:


    Do you want to have a whole ton of articulations and all the instruments of the orchestra all loaded up at onceare not right?


    Hi Martin,

    Appreciate your help.

    That's exactly what I want and need to do. The way I worked before (I cannot say the specifications other than it was a G5, not sure of the number of Gb! Logic was the program. The problem I often encountered was that after using about 50 tracks of busy articulations + many performance instruments, I was obliged to bounce it and then use that wave as one of the tracks mixed in with the new tracks. After bouncing about 4 times you begin to loose some control if you want to remove the last note of the "triangle"!

    But being less moron now, I would guess that having more RAM will help, but will CPU be able to process it?



    Alex,

    Ok I'll check David Govett's posts and the Giga forum. Thanks.


    Guy
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    A big issue here will be how many articulations you want to load at any given time. It seems like you may want to keep everything in midi and bounce at the last minute in case any last minute curves are thrown. That's the way I work too and, after a few curves, thankfully so. the problem quickly becomes having enough articulations available so you don't have to bounce. With a library the size of VSL, I anticipated a mac for the sequencer and kontakt, with the bulk of the VSL samples on two giga machines. That was QUICKLY saturated and I went with another giga machine which got me to a point where I was happy. Many others are happy with less so it really pays to think it through as you appear to be doing.

    Can't really help with Logic as i use Digital Performer. I would imagine the overloads are similar in either application which symptomatically suggests more of a cpu rather than ram issue. I run a G5 dual 2.0 and altiverb, kontakt and lots of other au instruments with no problem. Where ram becomes more of and isse is with samples. if you're thinking of Logic/EXS, then you will need a ton of it which has probably been discussed in detail in the exs forum if you need more info.

    hang in there!