Paul,

I think it's a win-win situation. It's only a one-month thing, so it's not like the seller is under-pricing the product for good. As for those who bought a given library before the sale, well we've all done that, no? I bought an Apple monitor that dropped 1,000 bucks in price 6 weeks later! Some of us also remember having spent that kind of money on a single sample cd (M.V. anyone? :roll[:)]. I know I don't look back and say, "what a rip-off that was!". I just think of the money I saved on musicians'/recording fees! At the end of the day, IMO, you buy a given library because you need it NOW (for a gig), or because you've finally come into some decent money, or... because of a sale. [:P]

@Ned Bouhalassa said:

Paul,

I think it's a win-win situation. It's only a one-month thing, so it's not like the seller is under-pricing the product for good. As for those who bought a given library before the sale, well we've all done that, no? At the end of the day, IMO, you buy a given library because you need it NOW (for a gig), or because you've finally come into some decent money, or... because of a sale. [:P]

Oh Absolutely agree Ned! Your original point was a good one. 20,000 copies in one month as opposed to say, 7,000, or whatever.

There's a danger though. A lot of the guys and gals aren't pros (whatever that means!?!) and those are probably big numbers.

Your other point about buying before a sale is valid. Yeah, done that many times on lots of things, not just musical equipment, which of course pisses you and me and everyone else off for various reasons. Tough balancing act for the developers.

Don't like doing that anymore though, and neither do you and everyone else. This issue with lots of people, buyers and sellers, may change their attitudes to timeframe. I may be wrong on this, but if not, library developers may be stuck with libs for longer than they thought they would.

Anyway, you're probably right Ned; my fear is, if there was any validity in my point, it could make new library developement slow rather more than one would be comfortable with.

One month only Ned? Until the next month! [:D]


I am probably being overly cautious again, as usual. [H]

Paul

@Existence said:

FYI -- the Gold Group Buy has now reached 36 entries, and a discount of 40%...

4 more and it will be at 50% guarranteed !! [:D]

One of the side of effects of Group Buys is that they encourage a lot of spontaneous purchases, from people who wold not otherwise consider a particular instrument, possibly drawing a lot of consumers disposable cash away from other planned purchases .... this particular offer could make it an uncomfortable time for anyone considering launching a new orchestral library at this time (and there's at least one in the offing).

This is true. QLSO is now over 60 copies sold in just 4 days. [[:|]]

Another vote for Chamber Strings group buy. It's the only product in the Horizon range that is out of reach for the non-pros. Sure the Opus1 is more expensive but it is also more extensive (swell, huh? :lol[:)] and therefore the investment is easily justified for the people actually needing a full symphony orchestra with true legatos and such. It isn't as easy to pay almost the same for "just" a few strings. The other Horizon products are already somewhat affordable and the full VSL orchestra is certainly too expensive for a group buy. Also the people interested in buying a full orchestra might have already done so in the EWQLSO Gold group buy. Besides I already have the Opus1 and bought it for the abovementioned reasons. [:D]

I'm voting for opus 1... I think they could sell a boatload of these; EWQL Gold is already well past the 80 copy mark in about 5 days, and now that it has hit the magic number they will undoubtedly sell plenty more.
I've been looking into buying either opus 1 or gold...was heavily leaning towards opus even though it was $ 100 more...but now that it is $ 700 more [[:|]] , I'm afraid I think I'm gonna have to go with gold. But...dear VSL folks, there's still about 20 days left to change my mind [[[;)]]] [[[;)]]] , and I'm sure there are plenty more people still sitting on the fence.

matto

I'm beginning to wonder if it might be rather difficult for VSL to start a Group Buy ... because unlike EWQL they don't distribute / sell their own product directly (correct me if I'm wrong).

so ...

1) they would either have to establish their own sales / order taking infrastructure. (And if they did this their delaers might not be too pleased.)

or

2) get their dealers / distributors to run the Group Buys for them. This could get difficult because they have so many ... which one would run the scheme? They couldn't all run separate schemes else the numbers would get diluted.


hope I'm wrong.

[those doubts aside, my vote would be for Epic Horns}

@Another User said:

I think it's a win-win situation.

For the short term, maybe, but that's going to wear off very quickly. In the longer term it's going to cause serious problems for developers if people start expecting to pay 40% of the price.

More importantly, put yourself in the position of a retailer who's making payments on stock that's now worth less than half what you paid for it.

So while this seems like a great idea on the surface, it's very dangerous for an industry that's already stretched pretty thin. If we want ever-improving toys to play with - and I sure do - we want developers to thrive.

Oh. I hadn't read Drew's post, which says the same thing. [8-)]

Well, it seems to pay off for Doug and Nick pretty well, as the number of orders for Gold are now well above 100 and still rising, with still 25 days to go.

For many people (including myself) the discounts now offered are a very strong stimulus to purchase the products. I probably would not have bought Gold at it’s original price point, and I think there are quite a lot of people who feel the same way. Furthermore, after ordering Gold, the upcoming Gold-upgrade becomes very appealing.

So, if VSL feels a strong urge to generate a Christmas sales hit and attract new customers, please, feel free to do so. [H]

What a pity that I'm not a private person on this forum ... I feel a STRONG urge to give a _really_ nice, sarcastic comment (... one of those I got dreaded for [6] ).

(GGRLLMMMMPFFFF - see, I could behave myself)

/Dietz [+o(]

@Dietz said:

What a pity that I'm not a private person on this forum ... I feel a STRONG urge to give a _really_ nice, sarcastic comment (... one of those I got dreaded for [6] ).

(GGRLLMMMMPFFFF - see, I could behave myself)

/Dietz [+o(]

I was wondering how long it would take Dietz. You did really well to hang in there for so long from where I am.

[:D]

@Another User said:

So while this seems like a great idea on the surface, it's very dangerous for an industry that's already stretched pretty thin. If we want ever-improving toys to play with - and I sure do - we want developers to thrive.

Oh, I do too. But so far, developers who have participated in the various group buys seem to be rather pleased with the results.

@Dietz said:

What a pity that I'm not a private person on this forum ... I feel a STRONG urge to give a _really_ nice, sarcastic comment (... one of those I got dreaded for [6] ).

(GGRLLMMMMPFFFF - see, I could behave myself)

/Dietz [+o(]

Hmm, since you're not a private person on this forum, how about an official, really nice (but not devilishly sarcastic [[;)]] ) comment on the topic?
I guess most of us are just curious if a group buy is something VSL would ever consider, or if not, what your reasons might be.

RIght, Dietz, say a comment. I was persuaded to buy EWQLSO Gold by this group buy, even though that package was not at all tops in my hoped-for purchases. But the savings are now considerable, and it made me buy one thing rather than another (something from VSL, for instance ...)

@Another User said:

In the longer term it's going to cause serious problems for developers if people start expecting to pay 40% of the price.

Not at all, imo -- but I might --<rather, DID>-- buy something like gold at 40% when I wouldn't consider it at 80%, or probably even 60%.

there was the 50% Student Discount on the first edition.
Was it a problem for the distributors ? I don't think so.
It could be nice to have 50% off on the Chamber String with a Group Sale, that would make us some eternal students.

[8-)]

Sorry, no comment from my side, as this issue is solely our Marketing Team's playground. You now, I'm just a musician/technician ... :-]

/Dietz

@Another User said:

Not at all, imo -- but I might --<rather, DID>-- buy something like gold at 40% when I wouldn't consider it at 80%, or probably even 60%

My opinion is fact, not opinion, Gugliel. Mark my words. [H]

As you can see, people are already clamoring for group buys for other products. How can VSL do what they do for 40% of what they're charging?

Answer: by selling 2-1/2 times as much (or more, because of the increased costs - support, etc.). So why not just lower the price to start with (psychology aside)?

Answer: because they can't afford to do what they do for 40% of what they're charging.

Result: no more VSL.

EWQLSO is an excellent library, and just adding a little bit of something with that hall - timpani boom boom, for example - can also make VSL sound better. You got a great deal. But you can't produce libraries with the detail of VSL's and sell the whole orchestra for $400. It takes way too much time.

My 2 cents...

I think group buys are really best for "the underdog" (EWQL, for example), as they serve to rapidly move a large quantity of product, and thus to push it into the public eye. VSL is not the underdog, but rather the undisputed champion, or at least very definitely "the one to have"... It's like the iPod. Everybody wants one, so they'll pay the price.

I still think the innovation that could really start moving VSL, in a *big* way, would be an online store, where samples could be purchased by articulation. In this sort of setup VSL could likely charge a *larger* mark-up (on a per-sample basis), and still move more product. Also, it would give them a good way to effectively guage the most popular and widely used articulations (for what, I'm not sure!). I mean, there are key samples I would invariably buy, from almost every current library, if I had the choice. Yet, without a shadow of a doubt, I wouldn't buy any "runs", so my purchases would be streamlined to my needs. My spening would also be divided up over time, which is a *major* factor for me when it comes to money, and at the same time secures a more stable cash-flow for VSL. Happy all round! [;)]

Now... as for the server... I don't even want to think about it...

J.

@Nick Batzdorf said:

My opinion is fact, not opinion,

Ha! MY opinion is fact, not yours, in my opinion.

It seems likely that no developer would offer a sale on those things that are selling correctly and successfully already. But if there is something (Chamber strings, perhaps, or the horns?) that is NOT selling as well as the developer hoped, or for which sales have stagnated, then some kind of special offer lets them experiment with their buying audience without permanently changing the price. Naturally, only THEY know what is and what is not selling.