I'm beginning to wonder if it might be rather difficult for VSL to start a Group Buy ... because unlike EWQL they don't distribute / sell their own product directly (correct me if I'm wrong).

so ...

1) they would either have to establish their own sales / order taking infrastructure. (And if they did this their delaers might not be too pleased.)

or

2) get their dealers / distributors to run the Group Buys for them. This could get difficult because they have so many ... which one would run the scheme? They couldn't all run separate schemes else the numbers would get diluted.


hope I'm wrong.

[those doubts aside, my vote would be for Epic Horns}

@Another User said:

I think it's a win-win situation.

For the short term, maybe, but that's going to wear off very quickly. In the longer term it's going to cause serious problems for developers if people start expecting to pay 40% of the price.

More importantly, put yourself in the position of a retailer who's making payments on stock that's now worth less than half what you paid for it.

So while this seems like a great idea on the surface, it's very dangerous for an industry that's already stretched pretty thin. If we want ever-improving toys to play with - and I sure do - we want developers to thrive.

Oh. I hadn't read Drew's post, which says the same thing. [8-)]

Well, it seems to pay off for Doug and Nick pretty well, as the number of orders for Gold are now well above 100 and still rising, with still 25 days to go.

For many people (including myself) the discounts now offered are a very strong stimulus to purchase the products. I probably would not have bought Gold at it’s original price point, and I think there are quite a lot of people who feel the same way. Furthermore, after ordering Gold, the upcoming Gold-upgrade becomes very appealing.

So, if VSL feels a strong urge to generate a Christmas sales hit and attract new customers, please, feel free to do so. [H]

What a pity that I'm not a private person on this forum ... I feel a STRONG urge to give a _really_ nice, sarcastic comment (... one of those I got dreaded for [6] ).

(GGRLLMMMMPFFFF - see, I could behave myself)

/Dietz [+o(]

@Dietz said:

What a pity that I'm not a private person on this forum ... I feel a STRONG urge to give a _really_ nice, sarcastic comment (... one of those I got dreaded for [6] ).

(GGRLLMMMMPFFFF - see, I could behave myself)

/Dietz [+o(]

I was wondering how long it would take Dietz. You did really well to hang in there for so long from where I am.

[:D]

@Another User said:

So while this seems like a great idea on the surface, it's very dangerous for an industry that's already stretched pretty thin. If we want ever-improving toys to play with - and I sure do - we want developers to thrive.

Oh, I do too. But so far, developers who have participated in the various group buys seem to be rather pleased with the results.

@Dietz said:

What a pity that I'm not a private person on this forum ... I feel a STRONG urge to give a _really_ nice, sarcastic comment (... one of those I got dreaded for [6] ).

(GGRLLMMMMPFFFF - see, I could behave myself)

/Dietz [+o(]

Hmm, since you're not a private person on this forum, how about an official, really nice (but not devilishly sarcastic [[;)]] ) comment on the topic?
I guess most of us are just curious if a group buy is something VSL would ever consider, or if not, what your reasons might be.

RIght, Dietz, say a comment. I was persuaded to buy EWQLSO Gold by this group buy, even though that package was not at all tops in my hoped-for purchases. But the savings are now considerable, and it made me buy one thing rather than another (something from VSL, for instance ...)

@Another User said:

In the longer term it's going to cause serious problems for developers if people start expecting to pay 40% of the price.

Not at all, imo -- but I might --<rather, DID>-- buy something like gold at 40% when I wouldn't consider it at 80%, or probably even 60%.

there was the 50% Student Discount on the first edition.
Was it a problem for the distributors ? I don't think so.
It could be nice to have 50% off on the Chamber String with a Group Sale, that would make us some eternal students.

[8-)]

Sorry, no comment from my side, as this issue is solely our Marketing Team's playground. You now, I'm just a musician/technician ... :-]

/Dietz

@Another User said:

Not at all, imo -- but I might --<rather, DID>-- buy something like gold at 40% when I wouldn't consider it at 80%, or probably even 60%

My opinion is fact, not opinion, Gugliel. Mark my words. [H]

As you can see, people are already clamoring for group buys for other products. How can VSL do what they do for 40% of what they're charging?

Answer: by selling 2-1/2 times as much (or more, because of the increased costs - support, etc.). So why not just lower the price to start with (psychology aside)?

Answer: because they can't afford to do what they do for 40% of what they're charging.

Result: no more VSL.

EWQLSO is an excellent library, and just adding a little bit of something with that hall - timpani boom boom, for example - can also make VSL sound better. You got a great deal. But you can't produce libraries with the detail of VSL's and sell the whole orchestra for $400. It takes way too much time.

My 2 cents...

I think group buys are really best for "the underdog" (EWQL, for example), as they serve to rapidly move a large quantity of product, and thus to push it into the public eye. VSL is not the underdog, but rather the undisputed champion, or at least very definitely "the one to have"... It's like the iPod. Everybody wants one, so they'll pay the price.

I still think the innovation that could really start moving VSL, in a *big* way, would be an online store, where samples could be purchased by articulation. In this sort of setup VSL could likely charge a *larger* mark-up (on a per-sample basis), and still move more product. Also, it would give them a good way to effectively guage the most popular and widely used articulations (for what, I'm not sure!). I mean, there are key samples I would invariably buy, from almost every current library, if I had the choice. Yet, without a shadow of a doubt, I wouldn't buy any "runs", so my purchases would be streamlined to my needs. My spening would also be divided up over time, which is a *major* factor for me when it comes to money, and at the same time secures a more stable cash-flow for VSL. Happy all round! [;)]

Now... as for the server... I don't even want to think about it...

J.

@Nick Batzdorf said:

My opinion is fact, not opinion,

Ha! MY opinion is fact, not yours, in my opinion.

It seems likely that no developer would offer a sale on those things that are selling correctly and successfully already. But if there is something (Chamber strings, perhaps, or the horns?) that is NOT selling as well as the developer hoped, or for which sales have stagnated, then some kind of special offer lets them experiment with their buying audience without permanently changing the price. Naturally, only THEY know what is and what is not selling.

@Dietz said:

Sorry, no comment from my side, as this issue is solely our Marketing Team's playground. You now, I'm just a musician/technician ... :-]

/Dietz

Fair enough. Not trying to get you in trouble there [:)] .

@jbm said:

My 2 cents...

VSL is not the underdog, but rather the undisputed champion, or at least very definitely "the one to have"... It's like the iPod. Everybody wants one, so they'll pay the price.

Yes, VSL has probably got the stronger, more prestigeous brand. (But this is not to say some people have chosen EWQL over VSL because its suits their need better.)

VSL is also much more of a growing concern than EWQL. After the release of their PRO upgrade, I wouldn't be expecting much more from EWQL on this particular franchise ..... whereas VSL have clearly articulated a vision of bigger and more comprehensive library, and more Horizon products filling in niche gaps...


... in the short term VSL will probably loose sales to the current wave of Group Buys, as more disposable cash is steered toward the great bargains to be had.

... but in the long term they could do their business great harm if people expected, or held out just for group buys, at significant discounts.

... and I still think their distribution agreements are probably a hinderance rather than help in setting up Group Buys.

On the other hand if they could overcome these ... as Nick has suggested, they could selectively choose products for Group Buys ... those where the pricing hasn't been set quite right, or where sales have stagnated. And leave the could leave the premium products well alone (First, Pro and even Opus1).


Anyway the lack of a response from the marketing team either means they are busy trying to formulate an offer that will keep everyone happy, or just sitting there grinding their teeth and cursing this discussion.

@drewbuchan said:

Anyway the lack of a response from the marketing team either means they are busy trying to formulate an offer that will keep everyone happy, or just sitting there grinding their teeth and cursing this discussion.

I'd guess at the latter. Keep who happy btw?

Hello everyone,
The lack of response from the Marketing guy has a much simpler reason--I was travelling... You all made good points, and while I totally understand the wish for a group buy we are actually not thinking about it. Some of you have already mentioned why it can't or shouldn't be done, and I could add some more reasons [;)] So, no grinding our teeth, no cursing, no calculating either, but happy about you actively participating as always and a lot of nice comments on our products [:)]

All the best, Martin

Thanks for the respone, Martin.
Never hurts to ask. [:)]

matto