The first is from Return of the Jedi. Luke fighting Vader ...

I beleive the last one is James Horner or Hans Zimmer

@Jean said:

Uhm, just HOW huge is the regular 'Hollywood' orchestra when it comes to the amount of players? is it that much bigger? I think the sound is influenced more by how it was recorded. Just look at Epic Horns, they had to experiment with the players' positions a lot (and the mics too probably) to get 'the' sound they wanted.

60 Strings:

18 1st Violins
16 2nd Violins
12 Violas
8 Cellos
6 Double Basses

So a unison Violins line is 34 Violins. This is the for the traditional big budget sized Hollywood orchestra. Often, just to make the recordings sound better, they add even MORE depending on the composition and composer's wishes. But certainly the above sizes are Goldsmith's and William's standards at the least.

Evan Evans

Actually this not very large by symphony orchestra standards. Just a normal complement for full orchestra. That's why symphony orchestras are going out of business these days.

"Huge" is actually more like what Berlioz conducted once: 1000 players. He used a sword to beat time.

By the way if you want true "Epic" string sound that blows Hans Zimmer and Little Jack Horner off the map, listen to the Chicago Symphony recording of Mahler's Eighth, the "Symphony of a Thousand" conducted by Solti. That is Epic Orchestra with Epic Choir. Compare that sound with anything ever done by any film composer - quite illuminating.

I heard Britten's Sea Interludes from Peter Grimes again recently.Astonishingly modern and filmic sounding.To the point that I could pick out several instances that Gerry Goldsmith MUST have heard.Really astounding stuff.

What do you think of this example?

www.nicklas-schmidt.com/demo/ee2nd.mp3

it's from Elgars 2nd symphony (Solti).

To me it's what expressive strings are all about..

@Another User said:

I wonder what Herb has in his sleev for Symphonic Cube?

1332387 Samples today (sample counter). Does it still increase those times ?

I read in the presentation : « will eventually comprise up to 1.5 million individual samples »

Come on ! Go back to work ! It’s not finish yet !



Seriously,


That QLSO announcement is a very good news.

It demonstrates that the orchestral sampling world is alive. Then VSL didn’t killed QLSO... so there is really a big market for those libraries...

It’s good for us, musicians. And for the VSL team too...


Nevertheless, I’d like to add this :

I don’t want to be provocative (not my style) , but the first advantage of VSL will probably be... GS3.

Six years ago Herb did a choice.

Dry sampling.

Was it an intuition ?

Since a big revolution appears. Convolution verb. Those tools which permit to get a such realistic sound that some times we just can’t do any difference with a natural sound... So important revolution that now, we get it directly in our samplers !
Adding to the AMD/INTEL competition, which let us getting more and more recourses, we hold now that incredibly realistic sound we dreamed...
Let’s be frank. No need to capture the wet sound anymore...

I think the choice was good.

And we can chose the room we want...

And last, that library doesn’t seem to belong to any sampler editor (or is there a deal between Tascam and VSL now ? Since there is a VSL set bundling with GS3...), so they can develop it for several one, and don’t have to obtain their agreement or wait their scheduling for innovations...



Regards.

Right - finally!!! [:P]
http://annecywebtv.free.fr/anm.mp3

THis is what I mean. THis is the kind of vibrato the strings (violins, violas, celli) should have!!!

Herb - please give it a try!!! You CAN do this!

Crystal, VSL is not dry... just not wet enough to be on its own space alone in most orchestral work...

And actually I don't agree static convolution is the holy grail to solve all room problems. But that might be me.

Thanks for giving some references finally. It took some time, but keep them coming [;)]

PolarBear

@Crystal said:

And last, that library doesn’t seem to belong to any sampler editor (or is there a deal between Tascam and VSL now ? Since there is a VSL set bundling with GS3...), so they can develop it for several one, and don’t have to obtain their agreement or wait their scheduling for innovations...

Regards.

Interesting theory Gabriel [[;)]]

I like very much that they're adding 2 Bb trumpets. I wish VSL would have something like that. IMO you need all the combinaitons:

1 Trumpet
2 Trumpets
3 Trumpets
4 Trumpets
1 Horn
2 Horns
3 Horns
4 Horns
6 Horns
1 Bone
2 Bones
3 Bones
4 Bones

This way you can have endless combinations of realistic solo, duet, trio, divisi, etc.

"Herb - please give it a try!!! You CAN do this!"
- Matt1

My, how condescending. But I guess you're trying to encourage Herb by acting superior, right?

Actually you would need to do it like this:

For 4 Trumpets for instance:

Trp1,
Trp2,
Trp3,
Trp4
Trps 1+2,
Trps 3+4
Trps 1+2+3,
Trps 1-4

Otherwise divisi crossing points and unisons might phase comb. But you could probably eliminate the 3 trumpet combo and just put Trp1,Trp2,Trp3 on the same note.

Too much work. I'd pay for it, but I doubt we'll see it liek this before another decade.

Evan Evans

If you have the first four you don't need the second four.

@Carter said:

If we can perform the first cue with VSL this is very good, i should give it a try but since i don't know the whole orchestration... [[:)]] this will be difficult.

You know, HZ has Lexicon Reverbs ... now, two TC System 6000. I'm trying one of this unit ... now I know how "easy" you can create a good sound. [[:)]]

@William said:

"Herb - please give it a try!!! You CAN do this!"
- Matt1

My, how condescending. But I guess you're trying to encourage Herb by acting superior, right?

woa hey! I dident read it as condescending at all! And I'm sure it isen't written like that either. Chill man [H]

William you are off the deep end baby. Calm down.

@William said:

If you have the first four you don't need the second four.

There is no SECOND four. Can you clarify?

Evan Evans

@Matt 1 said:

Right - finally!!! [:P]
http://annecywebtv.free.fr/anm.mp3

THis is what I mean. THis is the kind of vibrato the strings (violins, violas, celli) should have!!!

Herb - please give it a try!!! You CAN do this!

I hope you realize that Hans Zimmer uses multitracking approaches to orchestral recordings? He records brass and strings separately, along with his mockup tracks. Often his brass and strings are combinations of recordings (stacked even?) and samples. Although I like his stuff, I would not use it as examples of orchestral recordings....

@Carter said:

this is what i call epic strings imo :

http://annecywebtv.free.fr/mus/fditds.mp3

http://annecywebtv.free.fr/anm.mp3

And you can say everything, there is nothing else but violins, cellos/basses, and of course some brass, may be some woodwinds, but i doubt they take a large part in that strings sound
if somebody can achieve a violin sound like that with VSL so, tell us [:)]

An interesting subject by all means. I think that "epic strings" is really a subjective term. If I had to pick between Carter´s two clips, I definite would choose the Star Wars clip from Return of The Jedi. It has good instrumentation and balance, and the mix is really neutral and "honest". I simply dont like the sound of the scores in episode I and II. They are mixed/written far too polished, and it sounds more like a giant synth. But I do respect and admire John Williams work and musicianship. He is in fact one of my favourite filmmusic composer.
One of my favourite "epic string" pieces are Richard Strauss "Von den Hinterweltlern" ( from "Also sprach Zarathustra", Op.30) after the introducing tremolos and pizzicatos, where those delicious strings starts their "espressivo" effort (especially the cellos do realy shine)
But to if one need to get a string section to sound "epic", I think one have to not only look on the mixdown, reverb, eq etc.:

A famous but still effective cliché [:D] is for example make the cellos play in a high pitch while playing unison with the violins. hmm... maybe i´ve heard on a hollywood film somewhere....? [[;)]]

William
_____________________________________________________________________
how condescending. But I guess you're trying to encourage Herb by acting superior, right?
_____________________________________________________________________

Condescending? I do NOT think so. I am right here to say what I am thinking... and this should be positive critics to the VSL team. Since saying how wonderful everything sounds will not only help develop a product. I am very much convinced about the VSL stuff and I love it. But I am working with professionals all day long. To be honest, what the violins in some articulations sound like is not useable in their opinion...

Your statement was surprising me a lot and is almost condescending to me... in some way offending. Are you working pro, William?