Just a quick reply as a friend directed me to this forum. Piracy like breaking into somewhere and taking it/stealing a car. Ok, a fair analogy if not an entirely accurate one. I don't regularly use vsl myself or similar programs but I have used them during studies and am familiar with the problems of pirating but your analogy?....just made me think "he's right equipment is too expensive I'm gonna rob me a guitar !" now I'm not going to do it but that is what your analogy sugested to me. Just to check wouldn't that be" incitement to commit crime " ? cheers [:)]
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Musos, you are apparently presumptious. First you PRESUME that I missed your point, then you PRESUME that your explanation could be the only situation to encapsulate all scenarios and then draw definitve (read: NOT open) conclusion(s) based on your presumptions. Dude, there are more possibilities out there than what you can think of, you know? So, having said my piece on that, I will respond to what you've said:
I understand your point, but do NOT agree.
Try not to be so quick to jump to conclusions. Einstein worked his whole life trying to prove certian theories. He never concluded anything. Some of his theories were later able to be tested and concluded using the scientific method. But he never PRESUMED to have CONCLUSIVE results unless he did!
Colin
No hard feelings at all mate, but it's just a little annoying to have to be up against such incredible conlusions, some of which were directly about my own conclusions which you at this point can only have misunderstood as such.
Peace and let's be a little more open next time. To be so conclusive is how countries fall, religions murder, evil reigns, etc. The best thing that ever happened to human nature was when we said, "I am not sure."
Evan Evans
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A record producer I worked with - liked working with a lot actually - impressed me the most when, asked how we wre going to deal with a certain problem, said: "I'm not sure (yet)".
But don't be too hard on anybody here because of linguistic preferences....
back to piracy: Software companies and developers could go a long way to encourage loyalty. Building and maintaining a relationship with Cross-grades, upgrades, fair pricing, support; for example, Advanced Orchestra came out last year, completely re-worked for EXS. I bought it. The price was fair and it was a major update. Miroslav Vitous, on the other hand -(which I would probably like to buy too) is an example of a great library which needs a price drop and a reworking IMHO. Dan Dean is very cool, takes care of his customers. Steinberg don't endear themselves to me - The Grand will probably never appear as Audio Unit! VSL are tops in support, and their prices are (mostly) very fair I think.
End of rant mode.
Nigel
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. . . The price was fair and it was a major update. Miroslav Vitous, on the other hand -(which I would probably like to buy too) is an example of a great library which needs a price drop and a reworking IMHO. Dan Dean is very cool, takes care of his customers. Steinberg don't endear themselves to me - The Grand will probably never appear as Audio Unit! VSL are tops in support, and their prices are (mostly) very fair I think . . .
Who's to say what's "fair"? The software is the property of the developer. They can do whatever they want with it. Whether that means setting the price at a marketable level, or jacking it up and pricing themselves out of business. In the end, it is their stuff. In a free market economy, competition ensures that developers can price things at a level that will bring them income but also at a level that the average professional will be able to afford it.
Piracy (at least the kind that makes a profit on the stolen software) throws a cog in the wheel and forces the devs to collectively raise prices based on their estimations of how much will be lost through piracy. Now, I do not believe that products like VSL are ripped off to the extent that has been estimated, but that's not really the point. The point is that they have to estimate these things.
Commercial piracy is a vicious cycle. Pros rip off software because it's "too expensive," developers raise the price tag because they are losing money to pirates, and the pirates feel more justified in ripping of the developers, who will raise prices . . . etc. The developers are not doing anything wrong here. They are simply responding to the demands of a glitch in the free market and attempting to remain in business. This is why new PC games are running at $60 right now when they were $40 only a couple years ago. It is piracy-driven inflation.
Now, I still stand by what I said earlier about how a certain kind of "borrowing" can have the effect of helping all parties involved. Which does not make the means right, of course. But I can say with certainty that there are several developers who have me as their loyal customer now that would not have had me had I not had access to pirated software. Cakewalk SONAR, for instance. I "borrowed" it off a file-share site, used it for a few months, got used to the interface, etc. I finally decided I couldn't live without it, and went and purchased a fully licensed copy. That's just one case.
There are ways for a developer to take this idea and use it to advantage. Such as Softimage 3D. The nearly complete version is freely available for download at the website. The only limitations are that that the file format it saves will not open on the professional version, and the render resolution is locked to just below broadcast quality. Otherwise it is fully funcional. This takes away the temptation for people to illigitimately acquire software, while at the same time ensuring that it cannot be used for commercial applications.
~Chris
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I still don't quite get it. Why would someone that owns Vision need to download a copy?
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@mike connelly said:
I still don't quite get it. Why would someone that owns Vision need to download a copy?
Might be easier than backing up? Or maybe the original is damaged. Could be for any number of reasons. If they are legitimate owners, I don't see a problem with it.
~Chris
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Here's a different point of view by Brad Wardell of Stardock and Galactic Civilizations fame. As a game developer and publisher himself he has some insight into the business and he comes up with a very different conclusion:@Galleddrim said:
Commercial piracy is a vicious cycle. Pros rip off software because it's "too expensive," developers raise the price tag because they are losing money to pirates, and the pirates feel more justified in ripping of the developers, who will raise prices . . . etc. The developers are not doing anything wrong here. They are simply responding to the demands of a glitch in the free market and attempting to remain in business. This is why new PC games are running at $60 right now when they were $40 only a couple years ago. It is piracy-driven inflation.
http://www.joeuser.com/index.asp?c=1&AID=21895&u=0
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A record producer I worked with - liked working with a lot actually - impressed me the most when, asked how we wre going to deal with a certain problem, said: "I'm not sure (yet)".
Yeah, there'sa lot of confidence in that. It means, he is "like water" as Bruce Lee said. Able to form and change into whatever condition is currently applicable.
"Be like water" - Bruce lee
Evan Evans
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Jean...that is an important point. The guy basically says that (some)software developers are ripping off the public by selling unreliable products.
http://www.joeuser.com/index.asp?c=1&AID=21895&u=0
(the Link again)
And it is indeed an incredible cheek to take money from someone for something half-finished. But it happens quite a bit.
That doesn't apply so much to straight sample developers of course, but the lines are blurring as more sound companies wrap their products in a plug in, or supply tools to make them work. How much time do you spend downloading and installing updates,on the phone to support, trying to get your system working stably so you can.....? what? -oh yeah, it was music that got me into this, right?
I was more productive 10 years ago with an Atari and hardware samplers!
Nigel
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Nigel,
Man, nothing could be truer! 10 years ago I could produce 6 minutes of music a day. Now I am lucky if I get 1 minute done!
Evan Evans
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thank you Evan, I was thinking it was just me..... [:D]
now where was the Link for DFD extension 1.2.9.....or did I install it already
I'd better go trash some preferences and take a walk
N
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I've noticed the same principle of productivity going downhill especially in relation to Emulator IV hardware running Miraslav Vitous which was so reliable and quick to use, compared to today's ultra finicky software samplers.
"it is indeed an incredible cheek to take money from someone for something half-finished" - Nigel Watson
You know what I thought the instant I read this?
GIGASTUDIO
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Yes, I love my E4. Sadly, I never use it anymore though because "total recall" is something I'm pretty dependent on. I've converted lots of the sounds for EXS24 but they come nowhere near to how thay sounded in the E4. I'll will keep it until they make their new sampler card Mac-ready.
Even then I'll probably still keep it.
Nigel
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@William said:
I've noticed the same principle of productivity going downhill especially in relation to Emulator IV hardware running Miraslav Vitous which was so reliable and quick to use, compared to today's ultra finicky software samplers.
"it is indeed an incredible cheek to take money from someone for something half-finished" - Nigel Watson
You know what I thought the instant I read this?
GIGASTUDIO
William-
Me too. The product is definitely not finished! It crashes on me EVERY time I use it, and the 'known issues' are quite numerous and major. I have encountered a few errors that are not even on that page too. I guess we'll have to wait another year for an update. [8-)]
-mvanbebber
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AS you may or may not know. the core of GigaStudio is licensed from Jet Propulsions Laboratories. It is not allowed to be changed or modified according to the license agreement. So unless TASCAM abandons it entirely, then if it's the core causing any problems, it ain't gonna change in any future versions.
Evan Evans
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There are ways for a developer to take this idea and use it to advantage. Such as Softimage 3D. The nearly complete version is freely available for download at the website. The only limitations are that that the file format it saves will not open on the professional version, and the render resolution is locked to just below broadcast quality. Otherwise it is fully funcional. This takes away the temptation for people to illigitimately acquire software, while at the same time ensuring that it cannot be used for commercial applications.
~Chris
There, you just said it ....
Now, I don't now how this type of DEMO-type protection would work for Sample Libraries, but I've seen DEMOs of Reverbs where there was a "beep" every ten seconds .... just brainstorming ....
However, my point is, rationalise as much as you will, if you or your school didn't pay for it, or get it as a gift, don't use it.
PIRACY IN ANY FORM IS WRONG!!!!
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@GTBannah said:
Now, I don't now how this type of DEMO-type protection would work for Sample Libraries, but I've seen DEMOs of Reverbs where there was a "beep" every ten seconds .... just brainstorming ....
Altiverb does that. That's great, when you do a 200 hundred mile round trip for an Altiverb demo, and when you get to the shop, the guy demonstrating can't turn the f**king beep off and you've completely wasted your time and day. And you have to remain civil!!! Otherwise you'd wind up throwing him out the window! [8o|]
Just thought I'd share that with you.
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PaulR,
[message revised by evanevans; removed for inflammatory content, namely information that promotes hacking and cracking and stealing and plundering!!!! [6] ]
Evan Evans
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Just thought I'd share that with you.
Nah,
I was talking about the down-loadad DEMOs. I would hope that the shop would have the full version to show off to its customers .... [:D]