CM, Herb, and VSL Team,
It appears as though there are many many problems with the Repetition Tool and Repetition instruments on EXS24mkII in mac running Logic. I have done some testing and some examining and here is what I have found for instance with using some REP9 isntruments:
#1 - For each successive repeat, there is a new sample file on disk containing ONE less than the previous one all the way down to only 1 note, the last note. The only logistical mistake that seems to have been made by VSL here is that each of those files contain exactly the same sample information found in the full rep9 sample and are redundant/duplicative. This means that if a REP9 file is say 500KB, well you have repeated the same information MINUS one note for each other file on disk, REP8, REP7, REP6, ... REP1.
So to load 500KB of information, you have to instead re-load it for REP8 which is 460KB, etc. all the way down to REP1. So now to just access the 9 different starts within the original REP9 file you are taking up 2,980KB or almost 3MB. You have wasted effectively 6 times the hard disk space needed for the same information you could have achieved with only the original 500KB file. The way to do this is to assign the START SAMPLE for another REP KeyZone to the correct position of say 15,000 samples into the sample file. REP7 would start at 30,000, etc.
The PRO EDITION and FIRST EDITION size of the library could have been reduced to nearly 79% their current size. Doing the inverse math that means that the libraries are 25% bigger than they needed to be.
The first Edition uses EXACTLY 22.11GB for repetitions. Instead it needed to only be 3.65GB, a whopping 19GB of duplicate information get's installed. I can only presume that this mistake has been compounded in the PRO EDITION. For instance, the HORNS4 repetitions take up 1.1GB of hard disc space. But when you factor out all the duplicate sample information, you could have only needed to use 182MB.
#2 - It appears as though no one has done any programming of the sample start for each repetition on any of the repetition insrtuments. They all start at 0, which is in most cases before the attack of the instrument. NO WONDER NO ONE CAN USE THIS TOOL. Did anyone at VSL even try to use the tool at this point? HERB. You must go over to a Macintosh computer, have a friend launch Logic, make an EXS instance, and load up a HO-4 repetition for instance. It's completely wrong, I THINK.
So I have fixed the sample start times on one instrument and now the tool works correctly. Miraculously I now see how you can use it. But it was wrong and I had to correct it, I THINK. But, if so, this is your guys job because this was a lot of work. I am not going to do this to 1000 samples in every instrument. Please fix this mistake and post the new instruments for download. Thanks.
#3 - The REPETITION TOOL release time when you load a REP instrument is never set to the optimal settings for that instrument. In fact the release is almost always so long that you hear the multiple attacks echoing when you play a key.
#4 - The concept of the repetition tool as I see it, and understand it now, is duplicative of what could have been done instead, and with better results, by sampling the instrument playing 9 different staccatos seperately each with their full sample captured. Then in the ALTERNATION tool you just set it to alternate between those 9 samples. The result is the ability to change to any tempo, and it sounds great.
I have taken your REP9 instruments and mapped out instead an ALTERNATION tool version using the correct sample start points, and adjusted the release times to get rid of the nasty repeated notes that shouldn't have been there in the first place, and you know what? ...... it works brillliantly. Much better than the REPETITION TOOL. As I see it the engineeering behind doing repetitions in a single sample is inherently flawed, and too restrictive. It would have been better to have had 9 different staccato samples mapped into an Alternation tool instrument. Right? It certainly seems to work VERY well for me now that I have made that modifcation.
And that's all the rep tool is anyway. it's an ALTERNATION tool with ATTACK and RELEASE times on it.
Ok, maybe I am missing something, but for now, I am probably using repetitions for the first time of any FIRST EDITION user on EXS! Because previously, as everyone has been saying, they are not useable the way they are. Because the sample starts haven't been set.
And again, it is much appreciated your guys hard work and great library. I love it. I hope my information above proves helpful. Always, I am trying to help and have the greatest and highest respects for you all.
Thanks,
Evan Evans
It appears as though there are many many problems with the Repetition Tool and Repetition instruments on EXS24mkII in mac running Logic. I have done some testing and some examining and here is what I have found for instance with using some REP9 isntruments:
#1 - For each successive repeat, there is a new sample file on disk containing ONE less than the previous one all the way down to only 1 note, the last note. The only logistical mistake that seems to have been made by VSL here is that each of those files contain exactly the same sample information found in the full rep9 sample and are redundant/duplicative. This means that if a REP9 file is say 500KB, well you have repeated the same information MINUS one note for each other file on disk, REP8, REP7, REP6, ... REP1.
So to load 500KB of information, you have to instead re-load it for REP8 which is 460KB, etc. all the way down to REP1. So now to just access the 9 different starts within the original REP9 file you are taking up 2,980KB or almost 3MB. You have wasted effectively 6 times the hard disk space needed for the same information you could have achieved with only the original 500KB file. The way to do this is to assign the START SAMPLE for another REP KeyZone to the correct position of say 15,000 samples into the sample file. REP7 would start at 30,000, etc.
The PRO EDITION and FIRST EDITION size of the library could have been reduced to nearly 79% their current size. Doing the inverse math that means that the libraries are 25% bigger than they needed to be.
The first Edition uses EXACTLY 22.11GB for repetitions. Instead it needed to only be 3.65GB, a whopping 19GB of duplicate information get's installed. I can only presume that this mistake has been compounded in the PRO EDITION. For instance, the HORNS4 repetitions take up 1.1GB of hard disc space. But when you factor out all the duplicate sample information, you could have only needed to use 182MB.
#2 - It appears as though no one has done any programming of the sample start for each repetition on any of the repetition insrtuments. They all start at 0, which is in most cases before the attack of the instrument. NO WONDER NO ONE CAN USE THIS TOOL. Did anyone at VSL even try to use the tool at this point? HERB. You must go over to a Macintosh computer, have a friend launch Logic, make an EXS instance, and load up a HO-4 repetition for instance. It's completely wrong, I THINK.
So I have fixed the sample start times on one instrument and now the tool works correctly. Miraculously I now see how you can use it. But it was wrong and I had to correct it, I THINK. But, if so, this is your guys job because this was a lot of work. I am not going to do this to 1000 samples in every instrument. Please fix this mistake and post the new instruments for download. Thanks.
#3 - The REPETITION TOOL release time when you load a REP instrument is never set to the optimal settings for that instrument. In fact the release is almost always so long that you hear the multiple attacks echoing when you play a key.
#4 - The concept of the repetition tool as I see it, and understand it now, is duplicative of what could have been done instead, and with better results, by sampling the instrument playing 9 different staccatos seperately each with their full sample captured. Then in the ALTERNATION tool you just set it to alternate between those 9 samples. The result is the ability to change to any tempo, and it sounds great.
I have taken your REP9 instruments and mapped out instead an ALTERNATION tool version using the correct sample start points, and adjusted the release times to get rid of the nasty repeated notes that shouldn't have been there in the first place, and you know what? ...... it works brillliantly. Much better than the REPETITION TOOL. As I see it the engineeering behind doing repetitions in a single sample is inherently flawed, and too restrictive. It would have been better to have had 9 different staccato samples mapped into an Alternation tool instrument. Right? It certainly seems to work VERY well for me now that I have made that modifcation.
And that's all the rep tool is anyway. it's an ALTERNATION tool with ATTACK and RELEASE times on it.
Ok, maybe I am missing something, but for now, I am probably using repetitions for the first time of any FIRST EDITION user on EXS! Because previously, as everyone has been saying, they are not useable the way they are. Because the sample starts haven't been set.
And again, it is much appreciated your guys hard work and great library. I love it. I hope my information above proves helpful. Always, I am trying to help and have the greatest and highest respects for you all.
Thanks,
Evan Evans
