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  4. Logic off line Bounce problem

  • Logic off line Bounce problem

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    Hi
    I have a problem when bouncing off line in Logic 7.2
    The tracks I bounced has random not cut off so I have to rebounce it all the time... 1 quick workaround for me is a "real time" bounce but it takes too much time, a 7 minutes song with 10+ Vsl track will takes over 1 hours to bounce ...is anybody having the same problem?
    I am thinking about "freeze" it before bounce, not sure it will work
    My setup is: G5 2.5Dual, 5GB Ram, RME 9652DSP with Apogee Rosetta 800, buffer setting is 512 catche is low.
    Please help!
    Sonny
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    Sonny:

    In my experience, when using fairly complex matrices (24-36 patches) controlled by keyswitches and MIDI CC data, neither freezing tracks nor bouncing them offline (Logic 7.2.3 being the host application) worked properly - - there would be frequent occurences of the wrong patch playing. So I have been bouncing everything in real time since then - - which, as you say, is slow and painful when there are a lot of tracks to be bounced. Perhaps off line bouncing works better in Digital Performer? It would be great if other users would discuss their experiences with Logic, DP and other hosts in regard to this issue.

    (For the record: I run Logic 7.2.3 on a dual 2.5GHz G5 equipped with 7GB of RAM running OS 10.4.9).
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    I had that problem [note cut off] even when only have 1 or 2 Vsl track and not a very complex one, just 1 legato and 1 portamento controlled by CC1.
    If I can't solve this problem, I think I will track via analog to go direct into Protools HD system because I will have to transfer all track to PTHD for mixing anyway...
    But, still, I still prefer to have a perfect off line Bounce to save time and confidence when hand out the song to clients
    Best regards
    Sonny
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    Hmm. Though I frequently use CC#1 for crossfades, I never use keyswitches for cells or matrices, and I have had error-free offline and real-time bounces on Logic 7.1.1 from the outset of VI. I tend to go the multiple channel strip route instead of complex single matrices.

    In fact, my dual 1.8 frequently slows when more sample RAM is loaded, but even then, it will offline bounce without a problem. I haven't perceived bad bouncing as a common problem on this forum. I hope others comment.
  • T
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    I had this problem with both Logic on the Mac, and Nuendo (Mac also).

    Notes would be cut off abruptly in the middle of a phrase, etc...offline bouncing seemed to work better than freezing, but I eventually just did things in real time to save the hassle of having to redo it.

    TH
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    Freeze before bounce is work but make sure you listen back EVERYTHING, I tried and the "freeze track" has a hicup then the bounced track has the same hicup at the same place,
    So far, only real time bounce is 100% safe, it's just so sad, reminds me of BFD that I threw away year ago, never bounce cymbals track successful [:(]
    VSL team, any words on this issue please?
    In Protools, I can assign multiple Virtual instruments to axues and record many tracks at once, but in Logic, It seems not to work the same way, if it can, please logic user give me a quick instruction or just confirm it'll work.
    For example, Vsl track 1-4 assign to Aux 1-4, then in 4 Audio tracks, each in put is an Aux 1-4, play and hit record, Audio tracks will record real time thru Aux??? I am sure Prottols will work but Logic??? anybody?
    We can save a lot of time by doing that, 4 or more tracks at once instead of 1.
    Sonny
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    Hi
    I´ve been trying to use Logic as a live host for Vi but it is too unstable. I tried 3 different audiointerfaces, but they all came out with hanging notes, click etc.
    Solution: Using VI Standalone.-rock solid.

    Seems like this might be a Logic issue!?
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    I've had few problems with Logic as a live host - - except that at the start of a session there may be some clicks. After the first pass these disappear and do not return. However I keep the I/O buffer set to 512 or 1024k - this works with my MOTU 2408 mk3. According to rumor, the Apogee Symphony PCIe card attached to one of Apogee's converter boxes (Rosetta 800,AD 16 +DA 16) works well with much smaller buffer sizes - - but is a rather expensive solution.

    At some point I will try using only CC data - - no keyswitches - - for changing patches in matrices and see how this works when freezing or bouncing offline. (I suspect that using keyswitches may be the source of the problems I encountered with freezing and offline bouncing.) Even if that is not the case, using different channels for different patches would not be an efficient solution for me - - it's very useful to me to have all the patches for a given instrument on one MIDI channel as I work starting with writing the score in Finale - - set up to play back audio instruments instantiated in Logic. If I need a high quality mockup, then I transfer the score via MIDI file to Logic for tweaking. I found that using channel changes on a single staff in Finale sometimes made the MIDI files difficult to sort out, whereas having all articulations on one channel makes this process very simple - - and worth the price of having to do real time bounces. It's really a lot easier than having something like 64 or more staves for a string quartet (having each different articulation on a different staff is the best way to go if you are using separate channels for each articulation and intend to make a MIDI file to transfer the music to a sequencer).
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    So I am not alone in this issue then....
    I will STOP buying VSL [currently have full solo strings, chamber and Appassionata Strings] and wait until the more stable update is release
    VSL is a great collection of libray and great sound but the safety and time for my work are more important,
    So far I have to rebounce 12 songs, took me all day because of the real time, each song only have 2 vsl track, 1 custom matrice for 2- patches
    Amazingly, no one at Vsl team have not say any thing yet.
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    Sonny:

    I'm sure someone from the VSL team will respond regarding this. It's the weekend right now, so I'd guess they'll respond by the beginning of the week.
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    dsstudio,
    I'm going to play devil's advocate here, and suggest shorter bounces. Even with my entirely modest travel library whilst studying here in Moscow, there are occasions when Logic doesn't bounce correctly, with wrong articulations. That's to do with (for me) CPU and RAM resource and the vagaries of MIDI, and the speed or lack of it within my system. (I'm still waiting for someone to produce an ethernet midi controller keyboard, lol)
    It's been a working practise of mine since the days of Cbase 3.5 (never again, hehe) to write and bounce, or record to audio, in short chunks. I've discovered this gives one more control over the entire process, and actually frees up an opportunity to manipulate the 'feel' of an orchestral work to a greater and finer degree. (e.g., Rubato, with any modest time and pitch software, either built in or standalone.)
    I'm unconvinced that VSL's player is responsible for incorrect bouncing, and one only has to search other fora, and sources of Logic query to understand that Logic isn't perfect at freezing and bouncing by some degree. This program does have issues.

    Everyone has their own workflow and, dsstudio, this method may be unsuitable for you. But if you were to examine objectively the process, and determine the point at which you find an issue, you may discover the fault lies within the DAW, or harware capability.

    I wish you success, whatever you may discover,

    Alex.
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    Thanks hermitage59 for a very calmly advise,
    I don't know if my Set up and Logic having a problem or not but 1 thing for sure is vsl is the only software that cause me bouncing trouble, while almost other 20+ does not.
    Software that I threw away wihout think twice so far is BFD, E-Labs's Obsession and Foundation, some NI powered instruments etc... if they don't work for me, I refuse to work with them, to me time is money and these software just not worth my time.
    VSL next? I don't think so because it cost me serious money and I also really love the sound and features of vsl, it's a wonderful tool, so that's why I post the problem here hoping that VSL team can help me.
    Someone mentioned a stand-alone, will it work thru rewire and can I record more than 2 Vsl tracks at once?
    Thanks
    Sonny
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    Sonny,
    You are most welcome and i apologise if my comments seem a little simplistic, but i have discovered in life it's often the simplest things we take for granted that prove to be the last place we look!

    Another question is,
    do you load VSl first or last?
    I'm thinking that if you loaded VSL first then added other plugs until the problem occurs, it may be the case that there is a hidden conflict with only one source that you may have to deal with, and not a 'big overall problem' to tackle. What i mean by this is unloading the other plugs, bounce your VSL, and if that works continually without issues, then load your other plugs and bounce until the problem reoccurs.

    Perhaps a methodical process of elimination from a different direction would yield a result, and allow you to wallow more enthusiastically in the luxurious splendour of your VSL investment!

    Regards,

    Alex.
  • M
    M
    Dear Sonny,

    the problem you mention here is presently being investigated. Unfortunately we still don´t know what causes the errors during bouncing and freezing in Logic and whether it is initiated by Logic or Vienna Instruments. Moreover the problem seems to occur more frequently on older Mac models (PPC). As soon as I have received some further information about this issue, I´ll let you know.

    I am sorry that I cannot give you a more favourable reply at the moment. [8-)]

    Best regards,

    Maya
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    Maya:

    Thanks for responding. Please, if you can, keep us updated regarding this problem and let us know if it is specific to Logic or if it occurs with other hosts such as DP, Cubase, etc.

    Thanks again.
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    This is only a guess, but might help finding the root cause ...

    The problem with freezing seems to be related to the speed of the harddisk containing the samples. I have got the impression that while freezng the plugin is only playing the part of the sound that is already in RAM, not "telling" the host application that it needs time to stream the data from disk. Freezing a track is much faster than realtime and with slower disks (i.e. usb) the dropout drop out problem happens more often than with faster disks (firewire 800).

    ... only a guess, regards,

    gudgai
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    Welcome to the forum, gudgai.

    I have a firewire 800 external hard drive, and still plenty of problems freezing. But I think that may be because my RAM is WAY overloaded.
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    Sorry for being imprecise, I also have big problems although using a firewire 800 external hard drive, but it gets even worse using a slower one (usb). I also have a Core 2 Duo Processor, so I don't think the problem is related to the PPC processor, as Maya hinted.

    My guess is that the plugin just doesn't let the host application know that it needs more time to get the data from disk and therefore it drops the part of the sound that is not already loaded to RAM (this would also explain why it get worse the more RAM is filled).

    Other plugins (like Native Instruments Akoustik Piano) don't have this problem, they freeze with no problem. So it looks to me like a bug in the VSL plugin and not in the Logic Apllication.

    Best regards, gudgai.
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    I don't think that problems associated with freezing VI tracks or bouncing them offline have to do either with the speed of the disk or with the available RAM - - at least within limits. I say this because I have encountered exatly these problems although my sample libraries are running on a one terabyte SATA RAID 0 comprised of two very fast Seagate SATA II (3GBs) 500 GB drives connected to my G5 via a Firmtek SATA card and I have 7GB of RAM installed. In other words this appears to be a bug in the Vienna Instruments software as gudgai suggests. As a result, I bounce Vienna Instruments tracks in real time - - which is laborious, but works.