This seems like a lot to go through in proportion to how much better it'll make things sound.

Is this resonance effect really that noticable? I can understand something like snare drum sympathetic vibration, but how much does this occur in other instruments? Can you really tell the difference between a violinist playing in a room full of violins, and the violinist playing alone in the same room?

Things like recording brass with mutes are way more important than this.
It is worth it though as a very last addition to the library, if there is going to be a "last addition".

Anthony Lombardi
www.mp3.com/alombardi

What do you think of having ambiance noises from real orchestral hall that we could add to our vienna lib to make things dirtier, more alive.. (creaking chair, noozing audience...)?
You know the kind of non-silence you can hear on real records..

I am sure it works,
Don't we sometimes add analog noise to warm up some digital tracks?

Laurent

What do you think of having ambiance noises from real orchestral hall that we could add to our vienna lib to make things dirtier, more alive.. (creaking chair, noozing audience...)?
You know the kind of non-silence you can hear on real records..

I am sure it works,
Don't we sometimes add analog noise to warm up some digital tracks?

Laurent

There may be a flaw in your theory, Evan

the sound of an instrument next to another instrument affects the way the sound is actually made, with sympathetic vibrations etc. The initial samples for each instrument are not affected in this way by Altiverb - only with a reaction to the wave-sweep or gun, and not to the individual notes. Violins, for instance, resonate differently with each note (the belly resonates to a D, and the back to E [or vice-versa] for a Strad-based model). The AltiVerb can only give an example of the ambience at that point in the room...

still, it might be worth a go - you gonna fund it? [[;)]]

Peter

To all -

although I don't want to make too much noise (pun intended ;-]) about all this yet, I think I'm allowed to tell you that we work already on a solution similar to these suggested concepts since almost a year now.

Watch this space for news later this year ... interesting times are ahead, I asure you ;-]

/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library

Right now I'd just be happy with some sort of automated sample randomizer...

I've spent the last 2 weeks on a piece sampling myself playing sustained drones on a kazoo, looped them, and then mapped these across the entire stereo field (near, far, and evetything in between). However, to simulate a true chorus of instruments (I'm using 20 in total at this point), I had to route the samples through pitch, EQ, phase and amplitude envelope effect plugins--using unique settings for each sample--before mixdown. The result is a surprisingly realistic ensemble texture that is consistent in its timbral inconsistency.

So.

It seems to me that there should be some method of automating this "humanizing" effect--routing a given sample through a preset "macro" of audio manipulations which would randomize itself within user-defined limits to achieve believable randomness (some sequencers already do this with MIDI data). This could then be applied to any collection of samples without the need to do it manually, sample by sample.

Of course, reverberative resonance and sympathetic vibrations would be the final great frontiers in achieving ensemble-quality textures from solo instruments..!

My 2 cents [*-)]

@topcomposer said:

There may be a flaw in your theory, Evan
the sound of an instrument next to another instrument affects the way the sound is actually made, with sympathetic vibrations etc. The initial samples for each instrument are not affected in this way by Altiverb - only with a reaction to the wave-sweep or gun, and not to the individual notes. Violins, for instance, resonate differently with each note (the belly resonates to a D, and the back to E [or vice-versa] for a Strad-based model). The AltiVerb can only give an example of the ambience at that point in the room...

Your welcome to contradict me. I enjoy conjecture and debate.

Actually when you run a white noise or better yet, the filter sweep through something that will give off re-verberations (or vibrations), you get the frequency response PER focus frequency. So really, a filter sweep gives you the reactions to each frequency.

With AlitVerb if you play some low ContraBasses and you have a big sampled hall setup, you will get a different reverberation response than if you play shrieking violins. I am not talking pitch wise, but actually the file that AltiVerb uses based on a filter sweep live in the hall has the information in it to show how a high frequency sound would reverberate compared to a low frequency sound, and everything elese swept inbetween.

So It really is the answer to capturing the full frequency response to every ffrequency you can throw at it. It's kind of like a dynamic frequency response, but the dynamic part refers to the shift in frequency rather than volume (power).

A revision to my theory may be to use local vibration pickups on an unobtrusive part of the body of the instrument(s) to achieve maaximum insrtument to non-instrument rejection, so that the result is purely the vibration of the instruments without any wall reflections or other ambiences (other than what would effect the instrument ie: some wall reflections probably can be felt in the instrument's vibrations).

I'm not sure if I fully addressed your question, but I believe there was something amiss in your assessment of this technology, mainly regarding how the captured file would react to a D3 differently than say A#6, and it would.

Evan

@Another User said:

Things like recording brass with mutes are way more important than this.
It is worth it though as a very last addition to the library, if there is going to be a "last addition".

I absolutely 100% agree. I prefer we get VSL completely exhaustive of 80 to 90% of what an orchestra can do, then we can focus on this whole other venture really, of having individual players to make your own orchestra. This is more experimental, but is the VSL currently really not that experimental? Or GOS or Dan Dean or any other HUGE library? I submit that VSL is already on an experimental mission, and that they will need to think up new refreshing ways to continue to voyage to where no man has gone before, or else they won't have anyhting fun to do in a decade from now. [:'(]

Evan

evan

You may, indeed be right! I haven't used AltiVerb yet, so I may not have my head around the maths properly... still, I'm quite excited by the pre-news from Dietz - I think we're all going to spend SOOOO much money on these guys in the coming months/years...!

peter

In addition to the physical resonance of the instrument bodies, there is another dynamic property of instrument groups: Constructive and Destructive Interference of the instruments waveforms. Some of this may be realized in the summing of waveforms in the digital domain.