Hi. I just got the VSL and have enjoyed demo-ing the sounds, but I'm very disturbed that the duration of many of the instruments just isn't long enough. I talked to Herb and the demo guys at both AES and NAMM, imploring that they include looped versions of at least the sustained strings, the trem stgs, the (upcoming) con sordino stgs, and also possibly loop the woodwinds and brass. I find that while non-looped samples sound great, many times the non-looped sounds stop before my melody or accompaniment is ready to end! I don't get the impression that looped instruments are a priority for the company, so I thought I'd start a thread to get a petition going for including them in the next version of the VSL. Don't get me wrong, I think it's a great library, but for $3000 I'd like to not have to go thru the library and make my own looped versions! Please add your voice if you'd like to recommend loops- Thanks!
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Petition for loops on next VSL edition!
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Well.
I'm not a VSL user (yet) [[;)]] so I don't know if I'm exactly qualified to add my voice to this thread. However, I certainly would like to see looped samples become a part of this library. But I am content enough to wait and see what happens. Herb has hinted at further functionality in the future, in the context of loops, so I assume looped samples are planned.
~Chris
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I've had the same problem.I wanted to double a long-note melody on celli with tuba/trombone and the samples ended some time before I wanted them to.For a library of this sound quality and (eventual) depth,not mention price,I was very disappointed and surprised that this obvious problem wasn't addressed from the outset.It's going to come up a lot ,I fear:what about very slow passages,which require "footballs" over many bars,a la Ives' Unanswered Question? I hope this issue is put right in the future-it's a blot on an otherwise beautifully presented copybook.
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I would certainly welcome the inclusion of loops, certainly for all stringed instruments.
For solo brass or woodwind instruments it's less of an issue, as these instruments obviously cannot sustain for longer than a player can exhale!
For brass and woodwind ensembles however, players can use staggered breathing techniques to achieve 'infinte' sustain, so really these instruments should be looped too.
I know that before I set to work composing with my VSL set, I will need to manually introduce loops into at least the sustained violin instruments, maybe all the other strings too.
I don't know gigastudio at all yet - here's hoping this is possible. [:D]
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There are several reasons for the durations in the performance legati.
First, the musicians have to play 24 variations for each key. If we would record this gigs with double length then recording time woud be twice or more. To capture all Performance legato and Performance Grace legati for only one instrument needs much more than one month of recording time.
A never ending story.
Second, if musicians have to play very long notes, they loose expression.
And for me, expression is most important for the performanc legati.
Third looping. To loop all performance legati instruments, will take 10.000 man hours or more. We want to see, the looping features of the upcoming software sampler (like multiple loops in kontakt) before we do this enormous job. I hope everybody understand that a work process which is so expensive can't be done twice. (or we have to consider our pricing politics)
Also we have many ideas for future sample platforms, which will enable a creativ workflow of new dimensions. Our first edition is public now, and software sample developers can see the potential of future developments.
And now we can communicate our ideas!
In the beginning, when our project was only written on paper, no professional developer thought, that this library will ever happen.
On the other hand we thought, that our first edition offers enough innovations and enough content to reach a much higher lever in orchestra simulation.
Our project is an enormous undertaking, we really try to do everything as good as possible. Every user has different preferences, and it is impossible to fulfill all wishes of all people (for the moment).
Thanks a lot for your understanding
Herb
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Herb,
Thanks for the reply. [:)]
I think I speak for most people here when I say that the VSL as it stands, with or without loops, is a marvellous creation! Certainly my post was not meant as criticism of the library - I have nothing but respect for you and your team.
I can completely understand the reasons for not choosing to record longer note durations for the legato performances. The only patches I will be editing manually are the basic, 'sustain' patches, that do not form part of the performance set.
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Please read through an earlier thread I started about loops:
http://235.deatech.at/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=189&highlight=">http://235.deatech.at/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=189&highlight=
You have my signature on this petition for loops.
And Herb, I *DO* understand the man hours problem.
Regards - Colin
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First, thanks to those of you who have taken the time to respond to this petition thread. My hope is the more people who reply to this the more the VSL team will realize we need some basic loops for these wonderful instruments.
Second, let me thank Herb for his detailed response. I understand the dilemma of the time it would take to loop every instrument in the library, but I think I have aa possible interim solution. Included in the first edition strings are string ensembles. If you took a combination str ens of basses thru violins and gave us loops of just the sustain & tremelo strings at one dynamic level of mf we could at least use this patch for long sustained passages, which in film music is used on a daily basis!! I had this same problem with the SAM horns, and when I requested a looped version of their sustained horns, they made a couple of patches within weeks and posted them on their website for registered users to download. Perhaps you could do the same thing? I'd be very grateful as at this point all I can do is use other string libraries to hold sustains & trem's and that seems to defeat the purpose of your "one orchestra sound" concept. Thank you!
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The man hours thing from Herb is well noted,but what about the professional composer using this library,who finds time a precious enough commodity not to be taken up creating loops of his or her own?The library is big enough as it is and requires a considerable investment from its owner to set it up/customise it,etc.It's probably quicker to write out a score using a basic General MIDI set,but not as much fun (or inspirational),and the producer/directors nowadays,want to hear the finished thing...before it's finished!
Any help we can get in the way of time and labour saving would be most welcome.I for one will probably not be creating my own loops.
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Two thumbs up for loops....at least some basic sets. The idea of purchasing a library of this scope is to NOT program .......but write.
Chris Luke
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Hey everyone and thanks for this thread!
In full and humble appreciation of the VSL team (you guys are great!), I too would like to chime in and say that I am in need of extended length samples as well. Having these limited to a strategic, few looped sets is a wonderful idea. I hope we'll see some kind of solution to this issue in the near future. [:D]
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Hey everyone and thanks for this thread!
In full and humble appreciation of the VSL team (you guys are great!), I too would like to chime in and say that I am in need of extended length samples as well. Having these limited to a strategic, few looped sets is a wonderful idea. I hope we'll see some kind of solution to this issue in the near future. [:D]
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For the basic long sustains, sure, loops would be nice especially in the strings. Otherwise, I'd rather have the 10,000 man-hours spent creating new content. Especially since advanced time-stretching tools are just around the corner. Can you imagine how great it would be to have the power of Celemony's Melodyne in a software sampler? I think Roland's hardware sampler may even have this already.
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I agree there are many technologies around the corner that could replace or help with sustaining strings & other instruments, but as for right now, I've already plunked down my $3,000 and I'd really appreciate being able to use these strings in a context where I don't have to worry about the notes dying out before I intend them to! If you look at my earlier post you'll see that I think I have a solution that would only take a few days for the VSL team to achieve, not 10,000 hours. Please feel free to take the minute to sign this petition for basic looped strings! I really think we need this! Thank you- Frank
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I'm not signing up on the "petition" because I know it means Herb and his team have to spend twice as much time on the PRO edition, which is a waste of time imo, but looped performance instruments would be handy. It's an endless task to loop a library as large as VSL.
There is a simple and better way of sustaining unlooped samples for eternity (if that's your wish) - Just hold the sustain pedal while you're playing the note and retrigger it without releasing the pedal, just a few seconds before the note ends. You will get a seamless loop without any trouble.
I agree that the performance samples need looping!
Thomas
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Just bumping this thread in hopes of keeping the desire for a basic set of string loops on sustain and tremelo samples. C'mon, y'all, please sign up! If we get enough attention to this missing facet of an otherwise stellar library we may be able to actually use the string library in its entirety, and not have to mix the uniformed sound of these strings with Miroslav, Sonic Implants, or Garritan! Over 400 have viewed this thread so far; I can't believe that only a fraction of those reading this have no need for looped trems and sustains. Remember, all I'm asking for is a string ensemble of basses thru violins at mf having looped trems and sustain. Please help!!- Thanks, Frank
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i won't actually own the vsl until this afternoon when it arrives in the mail (woohoo!) but i know that no matter how long the samples are, looped versions would always come in handy. & with the size of this library, it will be a cold day in hell before i go through all those samples & loop them myself.
i also understand the kind of manpower it would take to get this done - so i'll sign the petition, but while i'm waiting, i'll be blending notes with the sustain pedal, which is something natural for me anyway.
good luck (all of us) & kudos to herb/vsl team for the unprecedented work done so far.
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I'm totally for having at least a minimum of loops for the most necessary elements. If the producers don't have time to do it, why not set up a user panel and split the work? Would this be possible? Can the loop info be shared seperately from the samples? Anyway, when I buy this library I'll be willing to do my part if it can be done...