apologies jstaczek, but the numbers you posted are totally misleading ... 97 keys with 7 velocity layers each is already 679 samples, not to mention repetition samples, release samples, ect .... 21 MB loaded sample headers would equal to 336 samples, but i don't know to which matrix you are referring to.
the product page for bösendorfer lists 9,350 samples (had to be divided by 2 for close and distant) whereas ivory has about 2.000 samples AFAIK.
usually VSL does not count release samples in the product specification ... david, can you confirm this for bösendorfer too?
christian

Apologies are mine. Not trying mislead at all.

I'm looking at the numbers in the VI Special Edition on the Perform Tab. And I don't see any repetitions in the Special Edition. The Control Edit tab says the matrix has 3 velocity layers and no release samples. If SE has four extra layers and release samples, please let me know where to find them!

Is it the case the Special Edition Bosendorfer does not quite have the same depth of samples as the non-Special Edition?

Respectfully,

Jason Staczek

my fault and i have to apologize ... i've read bösendorfer and preferred to overlook *SE* - so i think you _are_ correct.
of course SE can only offer a limited version of each instrument.
christian

dang... you forgot to tell me about the harpsichord and organ! [:P]

Haven't played either of those, but organ is 528 samples, 33 MB. I don't see a harpsichord: just cembalo which is 94 samples, 5MB.

SE is broad, but not deep.

As I always been told about Bosendorf as not so good piano in relation to other like fazioli. I expected the simple version in SE to be even worse. I was wrong. I have a Kawai KG5 grand piano, a roland 700 sx and a clavia nord stage and gigapiano II. Compared, Vienna piano is still good.
As for the organ and Clavicembalo it's the same.
I think the samples in general they worth the extra money for the extended SE. I only have to understand why a saxophone note doesn't play, but I have the library only since a few days
Sergino

@jstaczek said:

No demo for you, but the matrix is only 342 samples, 21MB total. Compare that with something like Ivory and it's quite small. Sounds fine buried in the rest of the orchestra, but I'd use something different for isolated piano. Definitely not satisfying to play by itself.

100% agree. SE Bosendorfer sounds too harsh to be played alone (although one can cut hi freqs interacting with the cutoff slider).

I have Ivory (+ Italian Grand expansion) and SE Bosendorfer: no question, Ivory is Ivory.

Furthermore, Ivory is 10 dvds as big + 5 dvds for the Italian Grand (12 velocity layers) expansion. SE Bosendorfer stays in 4 dvds with violins, violas, cellos, flutes, clarinets, organ...

[[;)]]

Maybe not everybody has checked this demo:

W.A.Mozart
Piano concerto K488 2nd mov

http://www.vsl.co.at/Player2.aspx?Lang=13&DemoId=5053

The piece is exclusively performed with the Special Edition (Standard content).
Of course the piano could shine more with the full version, but I think Giovanni Rotondo did a fine job with the stripped down SE version.

By the way, VSL DVDs are holding more the quintuple amount of samples in comparison to other manufactors sample-content DVDs, because of double-layers, storage compression and losless 24Bit to 16Bit size compression.

best
Herb

@herb said:

The piece is exclusively performed with the Special Edition (Standard content). Of course the piano could shine more with the full version, but I think Giovanni Rotondo did a fine job with the stripped down SE version.

Herb,

the soprano part is even acceptable. Repated chords passages in left hand, instead, sound very static. And I restate that, to my taste, the "shrinked" Bose has often to be post-equalized (i.e., cut higher harmonics) because the forte layer coud result too metallic.

The orchestra, in comparison, sounds far more better than the "pocket-sized" piano, but one could also wonder, at this point, why a Mozart concerto should be rendered by a computer with all that excellent live recordings out there...

[;)]

IMO, the piano is not the shire horse of the SE edition. And if one wishes to go beyond a good but limited mockup, an investment in the full VSL Bose (or any other piano library ad lib) should be taken in consideration.

The Harpsichord in the SE edition is really good, any idea when it'll be ready to reach the stores ?

You know what, guys. Seriously. I've been freaking using Reason 3.0 for all my samples and I'm really freaking tired of it, alright? If anything in Reason is better sampled than in the VSL library, well... I'll just have to pay for the expansions before I'm truely happy. Anyway, my first purchase will include VSL SE Stn. + Etx.

But to prove that I'm not a whiney baby, I can show you a piece which basically says I've mastered Reason 3.0 samples and I'm ready for something greater.

http://www.elanhickler.com/m/Tavern%20Tales%20I.mp3

Ok, please, if you think I'm an idiot, say so, and then I'll simply not care and continue to believe in my superiority [:P]

Edit: And this is the kind of music that I'll be creating with the help of VSL (among other standard genres of course)

Hi Elan. I listened to your piece and think that you'll find that VSL samples will improve the overall quality and realism. The instruments on SE are cut-down versions (hence the price), but the great thing about the package is its comprehensive instrumentation.

VSL samples are beautifully recorded, superbly played and well programmed, and the legato instruments are an enormous asset. However, you might find occasionally you need something a bit brasher and more in-your-face, so I wouldn't rule out occasionally dipping into other libraries for certain instruments/noises!

Thanks Conquer, hopefully I can have the money to buy more VSL libraries instead of dipping into others. Of course I plan on getting my ethnic instruments and hand percussion from places like Bela D and ProjectSAM.

Edit: oh yeah, the piece is a recreation of an Ultima Online tavern theme.

@Another User said:

The Harpsichord in the SE edition is really good, any idea when it'll be ready to reach the stores ?

The Special Keyboards are already at replication. Maybe shipping starts in two weeks.

best
Herb