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  4. 8 Core Mac Pro has little noted "NEW FEATURE"

  • 8 Core Mac Pro has little noted "NEW FEATURE"

    S
    S
    A new a little noted "feature" of the 8-core Mac is that, according to Apple neither RAM nor hard drives are necessariy interchangeable with the RAM and hard drives of quad core machines. This notice is at:

    http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=305352

    It states:

    "Mac Pro (8-core): Memory and hard drive kit compatibility

    With the release of Mac Pro (8-core) computers, Apple has qualified additional memory and hard drive options. Apple memory and hard drive kits designed for Mac Pro (8-core) computers are compatible with all Mac Pro computers (quad-core or 8-core).

    IMPORTANT: MAC PRO MEMORY AND HARD DRIVE KITS DESIGNED FOR QUAD-CORE MAC PRO COMPUTERS ONLY ARE NOT QUALIFIED FOR USE WITHA MAC PRO (8 CORE) COMPUTERS. (all-caps are mine)

    Apple kits compatible with all Mac Pro computers (quad-core and 8-core)

    Part Number and description
    MA985, 1GB 667MHz DDR2 FB DIMM ECC - 2x512MB
    MA986, 2GB 667MHz DDR2 FB DIMM ECC - 2x1GB
    MA987, 4GB 667MHz DDR2 FB DIMM ECC - 2x2GB
    MA988, 500GB Serial ATA 3Gb/s Hard Drive for Mac pro
    MA989, 750GB Serial ATA 3Gb/s Hard Drive for Mac pro

    Apple kits compatible only with quad-core Mac Pro computers

    Part Number and description

    MA684, 1GB 667MHz DDR2 FB DIMM ECC - 2x512MB
    MA685, 2GB 667MHz DDR2 FB DIMM ECC - 2x1GB
    MA833, 4GB 667MHz DDR2 FB DIMM ECC - 2x2GB
    MA690, 500GB Serial ATA 3Gb/s Hard Drive for Mac pro
    MA851, 750GB Serial ATA 3Gb/s Hard Drive for Mac pro"

    Clearly the specs seem the same so what's different? What difference could there be between a "certified" Seagate SATA 3Gb/s 750GB drive and an "uncertified" example of the same drive? Same question about the RAM. I contacted Other World Computing which sells both RAM and hard drives at consderably lower prices than Apple. They had apparently not been aware of this "new feature," but said they would look into this and get back to me when they have an answer.

    I certainly hope this is not something involving some proprietary firmware in the new machines that makes it impossible to use RAM and drives obtained from suppliers other than Apple!!

    I will, of course, relay an reliable information I get regarding this.
  • M
    M
    I see they got stumped with what to call it... dual, quad - ???? they should have called it OctoMac. [:D]

    Miklos.
  • cmC
    VSL Team
    cmC
    this is something i find annoying - what apple calls *technical specification* is mostly neither technical nor a specification.
    you can find at least two models for the seagate ES series 750 GB and of course there are more details for RAM than MHz and capacity (eg. timing) - but hey: why can't we simply read about that that?
    i'd wish to get that for chipset model, ethernet, firewire, onboard-sound ect. too, not to buy the pig in a poke ... anyway, fortunately in this price range you can't be up to too much mischief ...
    christian
    and remember: only a CRAY can run an endless loop in just three seconds.
  • M
    M
    The thing with Macs is that unlike PC's at this end of the game you can be generally confident that you're "getting the best that there is".... I know even with my G5 dual 2.0 it has 1ghz bus which was crazy at the time, and generally very good specs as the price tag suggested at the time.

    That notice about the interchangability is probably deserving of critisism towards the certification department more than anything else. More than likely, they're quite compatible, just not "certified" yet.

    Miklos.
  • S
    S
    I contacted 5 different 3rd party suppliers of RAM and hard drives - - all of whom have very good reputations - - and have responses from 3 so far. One of the responses I discount because it said that, "unlike some," their RAM was of the very finest quality etc. and would, "therefore," run perfectly on 8 core machines. Maybe they are right, but it sounded more like hype than anything based on actual testing. The other two respondents were less enthusiastic about themselves and said that they are awaiting delivery of 8 core machines - - which they promised to test extensively before making any statements about compatibility.
  • M
    M
    Please post the responses as soon as you get them!

    [:D]

    Best,
    Miklos.
  • S
    S
    No response yet from the 3rd party RAM suppliers. However I did find the following by an anonymous posting on the Macintouch.com website - but I can't vouch for its accuracy:

    "MacInTouch Reader

    For those of you wondering about the Apple Knowledge Base Article #305352:
    After some research this is what I have discovered:

    Memory: The difference in the memory is that all memory modules have a little program embedded in them. Apple changed the program in the 8 core memory modules to make them play nicely with the new 8 core processor. Also, the new 8 core memory module has a larger heat sink.

    Hard Drives: Notice that Apple uses the word "Kit" in the Knowledge Base Article. A "Kit" consists of a hard drive mounting sled and a Sata II hard drive. The sleds from the quad core Mac Pro are larger than the sleds in the 8 core Mac Pro. The smaller 8 core Mac Pro sled allows for greater air circulation, hence better cooling. The smaller 8 core Mac Pro sled can be used in the quad core Mac Pro but the larger quad core Mac Pro sled is too large to fit in the 8 core Mac Pro. Any Sata II hard drive will work in the new 8 core Mac Pro, with those having the 3gb transfer and 16 mb cache specs being the favored ones."
  • cmC
    VSL Team
    cmC
    makes all sense (except the term *little program* [:P]), especially the *bigger heat sink*
    christian
    and remember: only a CRAY can run an endless loop in just three seconds.
  • S
    S
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    @cm said:

    makes all sense (except the term *little program* ), especially the *bigger heat sink*


    But, that's the question, is there a "little program" and, if there is, will it be available to third party RAM suppliers? Apple's prices for RAM are far above market prices so it would be unfortunate if they were trying to force Mac Users to purchase their (IMO) exorbitantly priced RAM.
  • cmC
    VSL Team
    cmC
    this was meant sarcastically ... on fully buffered RAM sticks there sits a chip which regulates the datflow and *buffers* data, it is responsible for timing and spreading addresses across the memory chips - there is nothing like a *firmware* or *program* on a memory stick, everything is pure hard silicium ... of course this Advanced Memory Buffer Chip comes in various models, but the term *little program* is pure nonsense
    <a href=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e4/FBDIMM.gif">
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fully_Buffered_DIMM
    christian
    and remember: only a CRAY can run an endless loop in just three seconds.
  • S
    S
    Christian:

    Thanks very much for clarifying this.
  • D
    D
    In case anyone is interested, Crucial has 16GB RAM (the "correct" RAM, according to them) at about £1000 cheaper than Apple.

    DG
  • S
    S
    last edited
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    @Another User said:

    We have tested OWC and TransIntl memory on our 8 core. And those companies have confirmed that their memory is fully compatible with the 8 core.

    NO, the heatsink has not been altered on Apple's factory "8 core compatible" memory. It's identical those shipped with the 4 core Mac Pro.

    As for the reference to compatible drive kits, Apple's bulletin makes absolutely no sense. And, NO, the sled design has not been altered on the 8 core, as some have claimed.


    I am waiting to hear from several other third party RAM suppliers - who promised to do actual testing. When I hear from them I will post an update.

    Barefeats does have some benchmarks showing that while the 8 core machine is much faster than the Quad in purely computational tasks, but that real world applications like Adobe's CS3 seem to show only a modest increase in speed, if any. This, they attribute to a lack of sufficient bandwith in the memory bus and to the way in which OS10.4 addresses multiple processors. This latter problem was supposed to be solved in Leopard - - but, as we all now know, Leopard is now delayed "until October."

    For more on this subject see: http://diglloyd.com/diglloyd/blog.html

    Given all this, I'm hoping, ever more fervently, that you guys at VSL will consider issuing a version of the Standalone that has assignable audio outputs - - which would make it much easier to exceed the RAM limits of 32bit operating systems. Although Nick Batzdorf seems to have had success with SoundFlower, it has never worked for me without introducing pops and clicks....