@Another User said:

No lib will ever be self-musical, a single note does not make music...

I hear what you are saying. And I agree to a certain extent. But when you listen closely to real strings, their detail and subtle nauances it should clear why samples would have a hard time replicating this. Even top notch samples as VSL's. These details are extremely hard to replicate with samples for obvious reasons. And while this is true for any instrument, strings are the hardest in my view.

This dosent't take away anything from the AV's, or what VSL have have acheived. It's fantastic. But strings remain the holy grail.

No doubt that real strings is still more expressive but that's only because it would take a ton more samples, subtler articulations and real acoustics samples to match real strings and in my opinion that is definitely feasible and VSL is right on that path.

But my main point was that what you cannot come up with now does not mean in 6 month you will not find a way using the exact same tool.

But I also hear you... [:D]

@dpcon said:

[...] I just blended VSL string, brass and percussion in with a real orchestra on a film score and they saved the day. [...]

I've been involved in several productions where this was done, too - although more in a jazz/pop context - with great results.

@Christian Marcussen said:

In short - It's not true. [H]


Strings are generaly the achilles heal of sampled instruments. They are just so hard to pull off with samples since they are so alive. Even the Appassionate Violins which I really like, still dont nail it completely.

This couldn't be a truer statement.

Well anyway....

The other day a colleague sent me a AIF of a Mozart Symphony, I was sure it was a mockup, to my big surprise it was a real orchestra! [*-)]

@Guy said:

Well anyway....

The other day a colleague sent me a AIF of a Mozart Symphony, I was sure it was a mockup, to my big surprise it was a real orchestra! [*-)]

HAH!! Now, there's a switch.

What was it about the recording that made you think it was anything other than a real orchestra?

@Guy said:

Well anyway....

The other day a colleague sent me a AIF of a Mozart Symphony, I was sure it was a mockup, to my big surprise it was a real orchestra! [*-)]

HAH!! Now, there's a switch.

What was it about the recording that made you think it was anything other than a real orchestra?

JWL, believe it or not, and I feel really stupid now [:O]ops:, I thought it was over quantized, I did think the woodwinds sounded amazing, but not the strings, they sounded mecanical.

As I've noted in the past, I made this same mistake with a Toscanini recording. I couldn't believe any string section could play so fast and yet so precisely.

By the way, where is the article in question?

@Guy said:

Well anyway....

The other day a colleague sent me a AIF of a Mozart Symphony, I was sure it was a mockup, to my big surprise it was a real orchestra! [*-)]

HAH!! Now, there's a switch.

What was it about the recording that made you think it was anything other than a real orchestra?

JWL, believe it or not, and I feel really stupid now [:O]ops:, I thought it was over quantized, I did think the woodwinds sounded amazing, but not the strings, they sounded mecanical.

There IS a such thing as poorly recorded classical orchestral CDs.

There is also a such thing as greatly enhanced virtual orchestra libraries that are putting good musical ears through their paces-- ie: VSL and VI *** when used effectively***

Plowman-- I do remember your discussion on the Toscanini example. It's remarkable that we (as keen virtual orchestral musicians) can be stumped this way.

That's the reason why I love the exercise of sequencing a favorite orchestral work to an actual recording. It really forces me to reassess my previous notions of what is humanly possible and what is characteristically unique to computer sequencinng. This doesn't mean that the Mozart or Toscanini recordings are necessarily preferred, artistically speaking. It does give us more to consider when creating virtual tracks-- that not every recording of a real orchestra sounds "real"!!

Here's the article.

http://www.soniccontrol.com/reviews/details.php?ID=99

@dpcon said:

I just blended VSL string, brass and percussion in with a real orchestra on a film score and they saved the day.

I've been involved in several productions where this was done, too - although more in a jazz/pop context - with great results.

I have heard people knock the VSL cellos but I think they are some of the best instruments in the library. In a passage on this score the conductor misunderstood my direction to bring out the violas leaving the primary tune in the cellos in the background. We layered in the VSL cellos from the mockup of the score and they contained all the expression one could ask for while blending in without detection as samples. Same for other critical sections with various Brass, Winds and Percussion. Heck we even layered in the general Strings patch for a couple measures for a sort of pad and bingo: Dm13 in all it's glory.