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  3. Major probs with Opus 1 and stereo samples

  • Major probs with Opus 1 and stereo samples

    M
    M
    I noticed something weird in some of my pieces, where the instruments seemed to be "travelling" across channels.. from center to right, or center to left. I thought maybe my DSP in Giga3 was goofed or something. But I turned off all processing/reverb.. have a listen to the staccato bassoon:

    http://www.samhulick.com/misc/bad_stereo.mp3

    Yes, that's one sample, one track.. just two different notes. I don't know much about how recording sessions work, but to me, this seems like a rush job and no one took the time or attention to fix this. I shouldn't have to resort to this, but now I have to narrow the stereo image on my Opus samples, to make sure this doesn't happen. In Giga3, how do I collapse these samples to mono, without losing L/R channel data? I'm done with stereo samples in VSL products. I can't rely on the fact that they're NOT going to travel across channels like this and try to break out of the stage placements I give them in GigaPulse.

    EDIT: Nevermind, I figured it out.. the "Width" knob in the DSP inputs, when set to 0%, collapses the stereo sample to mono. Perfect.
  • M
    M
    OK, here's a comparison (with GigaPulse reverb). First you'll hear what it used to sound like in a typical mix I'd use, and then you'll hear it with the stereo image collapsed.

    http://www.samhulick.com/misc/stereo_comparison.mp3

    MUCH more consistent now.. it doesn't sound like the bassoon player was walking around while they were recording. However, I notice a slight volume drop in the sample that used to be biased towards the right channel. Any idea why this is happening and how I can fix it?
  • JBacalJ
    JBacalJ
    I have heard VSL stereo samples move around in the field before, but nothing this extreme! I think there is something very wrong with the sample on the extreme right. Are those notes on a different sequencer track? If so double check the midi pan setting for that track. Weird.

    Best,
    Jay
  • M
    M
    No. Same track, same articulation, etc. This is one single MIDI channel. That's what's so disturbing about this. I am simply hitting two different notes on my keyboard, that's it.

    Beat Kaufmann has a VSL instructional page on long notes in VSL.. you can even hear the stereo wandering in his mockup:
    http://www.beat-kaufmann.com/downloads/bkvsllnex25.mp3

    In a couple places you can hear a couple violin short notes wander from the left channel into the center.
  • JBacalJ
    JBacalJ
    With ensemble strings it is harder to discern the problem because different violinists might be playing more or less loudly at different points thereby shifting the overal sense of placement. But your solo bassoon example is clearly a problem.

    I have found (like you) that minor shifting in the stereo field can be minimized for solo instruments by compressing their stereo width. In fact there are some who might argue that narrowing to near mono is useful for solo instruments in a large orchestral context.

    Best,
    Jay
  • M
    M
    I'm interested in making a numbe of samples mono because of this reason. But how do you 'narrow' the stereo width at the sample level? Is there a function in GS for this, or maybe in Sound Forge? Or would you want to do it at the sample level at all?

    Thanks,
    Mahlon
  • M
    M
    You absolutely want to do it at the sample level. I will post details later this evening when I have time..
  • M
    M
    OK, so.. besides the volume drop problem that I can't figure out, probably a good setup is this:

    In the DSP settings, in the aux section.. set up three GigaPulse instances: close, mid, and far. You can set these up however you like.. but basically you want to be able to position instruments at the front of the stage or in the center, or rear. Or you could save CPU and just have two: close & far. That might work out OK too.

    Next.. on the DSP inputs, define several DSP inputs.. let's assume above you only created close/far, for simplicity sake. You can create inputs as such:

    - Solo L (c) [solo instrument, panned left, close]
    - Solo C (c)
    - Solo R (c)
    - Solo L (f) [solo instrument, panned left, far]
    - Solo C (f)
    - Solo R (f)
    - SmallEns L (c) [small ensemble (e.g. 3 flutes), panned left, close]
    - .....etc.etc.
    - BigEns L (c) [big ensemble (e.g. Epic Horns, 1st violins), panned left, close]
    - .....etc.etc.

    I don't remember off the top of my head how many inputs Giga3 supports, but I do think it was a lot. Anyway, now here on the inputs you want to set your widths and panning. For solo instruments, keep widths narrow (0-5%), for small ensembles, try maybe 5-10% or 5-15%. For large ensembles, maybe around 20-30%. Then, route these inputs into groups. The groups is where you will link the proper inputs to the right aux sends.. be sure "PRE" and "ON" are both highlighted.. you want prefading on these, and link to the correct aux sends.

    And that's it! You've now got a multi-position stage placement setup going on. This is all off the top of my head, without actually trying it out in Giga yet, but I'm pretty sure this is how it would be set up. I'll post here to make any corrections if I've made any mistakes here.

    Good luck!
  • M
    M
    Thanks, mdesigner. That makes sense. Is this how you're talking about "at the sample level" though. I mean, my question is, what if you're not going to be using GigaPulse but just sending the audio out to external processors? Is there a way to narrow the stereo field of the samples themselves in GS or another program? Or maybe the instruments in GS? Am I getting the idea of this all wrong?

    Thanks,
    Mahlon
  • M
    M
    GigaPulse is just reverb. You don't have to use it. You can still use the DSP panel to narrow the stereo width on any samples that are running through a particular DSP input.
  • C
    C
    Wow I hadn't used the Opus 1 Bassoon before and sure enough it does wander a great deal. Even one dynamic to the next on the same note can be in a different location. It isn't as pronounced if you have a decent reverb going but I found as with M that mono was the only way to go. Luckily the Legato xfade patch isn't like this.
    Chris
  • R
    R
    Hi,
    Isn't it solved by just panning the zones ( in EXS, edit window) back to 0.
    I found that quite a few of these zones are panned at -31 others at +15 ,the rest at 0.
    Or are these 'pannings' essential to the VSL-Bassoon.?
    Ron.
  • C
    C
    I hadn't looked. Thanks I will check that out.
    Chris