In defense of VIPs - "Paying Twice"

[ariacat]

I own the complete Pro Edition.

Much has been written here about the pricing issues related to VI. Many have defended VSL's justification for the pricing structure on the basis that VI is 24-bit and includes many more samples for each instrument. This is no doubt true, but I would like to point out that it was VSL, not the VIPs that extolled the notion that "you should never have to pay for the same sample twice." And it was VSL not the VIPs that limited the Pro Edition to 16-bit, even though the original sampling was done in 24-bit. Even if we assume that there are now twice as many samples in the new standard edition VI as there were in the Pro Edition (although I doubt it), it still means that we are "paying twice" for at least 50% of the samples in the standard edition. And I seriously doubt that 100% of the extended edition samples are new. In the end, not only will it cost me an additional $1,000 US to get to the full VI upgrade than if I started fresh today with VI, there is no question that I will be "paying twice" for many of the same samples.

VSL is a great product, but I have lost a measure of respect for the company and the people who made promises about how it would be run.

[tele]

@ariacat said:

there is no question that I will be "paying twice" for many of the same samples

No question?
For the libraries that I have looked at, the content (=number of samples) of the VI Extended Edition is twice as much as their Horizon seriens predecessors.
So, for those wanting to go to the Extended Edition - it doesn't look like paying the samples twice to me.
Example with Chamber Strings:
Horizon Price: €800 for 31975 samples
Upgrade to Vienna Instrument Full Library: €525 for another 30000 samples plus the new software plugin, which is also worth quite some $$$.

Doesn't look like paying twice to me - for those going the route to the Full Version.

Those who'd like to just work with the Standard version in the future, do not have an upgrade/sidegade option. Always full price as if they were a first time customer.... OK, they can get the extende Library on top for little money: But who cares about that if they don't need it.

tele

[ariacat]

To clarify, I don't mean that I am paying twice as much, I mean that I would be paying for samples that I already purchased in the Pro Edition, which was supposed to be the point of the VIP program--that you would never have to pay for the same samples twice.

Let me also say that I don't think VSL, in general, is too expensive for what it is. I just don't think that one should have to repurchase samples that you have already purchased. Under the current plan, if you own the Pro Edition and you want to move to the Standard Edition of VI, you're re-purchasing SOME samples you already own.

[tele]

@ariacat said:

if you own the Pro Edition and you want to move to the Standard Edition of VI, you're re-purchasing SOME samples you already own.

Agreed.

This is the missing path.
There is NO path for current users to move to the Standard Edition.
This ignores and upsets all those who would like to move from their current product(s) to the Standard Edition, the price is the same as for a new user.
Either VSL thought that there are no current users who would like to move to the new VI Standard Edition, or it is the intentional strategy to get us to buy more than we actually want/need. The third possibilty is that only 1 of 1000 current customers are like me and just want the VI standard edition and therefore there#s not enough customers of this type to make it woth caring for (from a business viewpoint).
I believe that VSL just oversaw/forgot us and hope they'll come up with a solution.

tele

[cm]

tele, moving from a PRO module to the respective VI standard collection is not an upgrade (i've tried to explain this in detail in other threads).
moving from a PRO module to the respective VI full collection _is_ an upgrade and significant discounts apply.
christian

[tele]

@cm said:

tele, moving from a PRO module to the respective VI standard collection is not an upgrade (i've tried to explain this in detail in other threads).
moving from a PRO module to the respective VI full collection _is_ an upgrade and significant discounts apply.
christian

I understand your communication, but it looks like we disagree.. [;)]
The VI Standard Edition also has Upgrade aspects, also talking about the software/engine part. Are there no samples in the Standard Edition that are part of the horizon series, now? (I know it's 24 bit now)
I am a user of Chamber Strings Horizon series, the VI Complete edition is too much for my purpose. I would need a (let's call it) sidegrade to the VI Standard edition.
That surely is possible and makes sense from a business viewpoint, for those who are my tape of target group. I don't need all the articulations of the Extented Edition. There is no appropriate path to walk on for me.

tele

[tele]

@cm said:

tele, moving from a PRO module to the respective VI standard collection is not an upgrade (i've tried to explain this in detail in other threads).

Hard to find it in all those threads. Could you post a link to your post?

tele

[charl]

@cm said:

moving from a PRO module to the respective VI standard collection is not an upgrade

Wow. I'm trying to understand the logic behind that.
Let me extrapolate your reasoning.
If, as you say, there is no link between pro edition and the standard cube VI. Then I don't see why there would have to be a link between pro edition and extended Cube VI either. This would mean that the VIP upgrade path on the Cube (let alone the extended Cube) doesn't make any sense at all..
... absurd.

It 's quite obvious that there IS a direct link between pro edition and Standart Cube. Simply you're not willing to honor the simplicity of that fact.

-Make us pay for the 24bit
-Make us Pay for the VI programming etc
-Make us pay for the new samples.

But don't make us pay full price on the standard Cube.

Things don't connect here...
It's pretty sad.

[ariacat]

@Another User said:

If, as you say, there is no link between pro edition and the standard cube VI. Then I don't see why there would have to be a link between pro edition and extended Cube VI either.

Excellent point!

If this is not an upgrade, are they saying this is an entirely new library? So none of the sample content from the Pro Editions is being re-used? Yeah, sure!

And I've got an ADAT I'd like to sell you for 5K too!

They're right--it's not an upgrade. It's a side-grade for Pro users, with a new interface and added content. And it should be priced accordingly.

[perry montauredes]

I couldn't agree more Charl!

[edhamilton]

@cm said:

tele, moving from a PRO module to the respective VI standard collection is not an upgrade (i've tried to explain this in detail in other threads).

That's the most infuriating statement yet and I fear its fuel on an already heated fire.

It would be true if the VI used all new samples.
But it uses samples I already OWN in the pro edition.

Its only "not an upgrade" because you decided its not.

IT IS and upgrade. Period. End of story.

[DG]

@edhamilton said:

But it uses samples I already OWN in the pro edition.

Its only "not an upgrade" because you decided its not.

IT IS and upgrade. Period. End of story.

You don't own any samples; you have a licence to use them. You can still use them. What you want is a free side-grade to be able to use them in a new sample player. There are samples in Standard that you have no licence to use, hence you pay for it. Period. End of story.

DG

[tele]

@edhamilton said:

IT IS and upgrade.

What you want is a free side-grade ...
DG

He did not mention the word free.

tele

[hermitage59]

@edhamilton said:

IT IS and upgrade.

What you want is a free side-grade ...
DG

He did not mention the word free.

tele

He didn't have to. The global warming emissions over the last two days about this are going to warm the planet a degree or two, and we're going over the same ground again and again, as if the hard core of detractors can somehow bludgeon the rest of us and VSL into accepting their point of view. Say it as many times as you like, i'll bet there are plenty who are queuing up to part with their money, and cut their worktime considerably. And i'm sure there will be plenty like me who will buy one instrument at a time, as we can afford it, becuase we think it's a good deal for the worlds best sample library. I think it's time to accept that you are a minority, that the discussion about the product not the price has highlighted some truly worthy elements of the cube, and very rarely have any of you mentioned the real strengths of the package contained in the VI. I for one will enjoy loading multiarticulations into one track, playing, Romtimising, and doing the next one without having to sort out 15 or twenty tracks at a time.

And much of the belligerent accusation the minority hard core has used is bordering on immoral with statements akin to accusing VSL of pulling a scam, or ripping off their customers. It's complete rubbish, and bloody distasteful.

How quickly some people can so willingly descend into savagery.

None of you said this when you bought previous VSL products. You sat at home or in the studio, loaded them up, and drooled over the quality of the sounds, and the thought of even more lifelike work, showing off to your mates because you had 'VSL", the very best.
Now that VSL have taken another big step forward in a new direction, you've decided you can't keep up, and want the company to hold your hand, and give you anything for nothing, because you're 'loyal.'
Well, the rest of us have seen precious little of that loyalty and positive input to the company over the last few days, and instead of presenting your points in a civilised manner, you've gone into pack mode, threatening all sorts of retribution if you don't get your own way. Pretty ungrateful stuff for all the upgrades, freebies, and great service in the past.

Same thing happens when children throw their teddies out of the pram.

Time to grow up and behave like civilised adults.

Alex.

[tele]

@hermitage59 said:

...statements akin to accusing VSL of pulling a scam, or ripping off their customers. It's complete rubbish, and bloody distasteful.
...
Alex.

I agree that we should stick to an appropriate choice of words.
You will not find a post from me using theese or similar words.
You replied to my post. Are you saying I wrote something that deserves your descrption with words like
- bloody distasteful
- ungrateful stuff
?

tele