Guy,
I don't think there will be any ill feelings.
Sometimes it's better to stand back and watch children throwing their teddies out of the pram than joining in. Speaks well for waiting for all the facts doesn't it!
And importantly, you had the grace to admit being a little harsh.
On a brighter note, the videos look great, yes?

Regards,

Alex.

maybe its fair but it still is out of most ordinary peoples price range. Don't you think? I mena 11 grand is about a 1/3 of my anuall income.

I admit the $4620.00 is a lot (suddenly!) But at least all the upgrades (depending on what you already own) could get you GREAT discounts!

Also you could purchase them one at a time, which is what I might end up doing.

Well, I understood the pricing scheme from day 1, and understand fully if some people don’t feel they got what they bargained for, and stand by what I have said.

My comments aren't so much about the final price, as it is I feel VSL have balanced dangerously close to abandoning their declared ideals. Ideals that make this the no. 1 company - that and having the best samples no less [:D]. So for me it’s a matter of principle - and as mentioned earlier - my criticisms were out of love for this company.

At any rate I dare say the final price is quite affordable for professionals, and lets face it - Hobbyists aren't VSL's target market.

@magates said:

maybe its fair but it still is out of most ordinary peoples price range. Don't you think? I mena 11 grand is about a 1/3 of my anuall income.

Matt, I don't mean to sound harsh, but as you haven't been in the profession as long as some of us, it's no wonder that you don't have as large an income. Give it time..............

DG

If you had a profile of the people who bought VSL most of them are probably hobbyists - initial outlay wasn't that much - if I was starting from scratch I would not have a huge problem with the current prices- the problem is all those who purchased the first edition are basically getting the same core samples back with a much cleverer playing tool the result being they can create what they want to create quicker now, except that their bank balance is very much depleted for that luxury.
Its a Cost - Benefit analysis and I'm sure in my case that I don't need the upgraded product to achieve the result.
Whats the conclusion? The new product is priced so as not to make it worthwhile for an experienced programmer to want to purchase it. A bad marketing stategy, maybe, maybe not. Can wait for 2 years time for when they do another major 'upgrade' and start flogging the current one cheaper.

@Christian Marcussen said:

At any rate I dare say the final price is quite affordable for professionals, and lets face it - Hobbyists aren't VSL's target market.

Then with all due respect, you have a misinformed view of professionals. Finding that a product you already paid thousands of dollars for, will now costs thousands of dollars more, can hardly be considered "quite affordable" to many. "Quite affordable" is a great piano like Ivory. Not the entire VSL library[;)]

I'm a professional. I make my entire living from writing and producing music, and support...barely...a house full of 5 kids.

Friends who are directors, editors, fellow composers, models, singers...all of us are professionals, and all of us take work for far less money than we used to make. That's partly due to the fact that since recording at home became a reality once the aDat came out, there is a music producer on every street in the US who will do the job for less, and clients know it.

We are all reinventing ourselves constantly and trying to keep afloat. Not everyone works in Hollywood on the next Spielberg film...and not everyone is contracted to do the latest XBOX game. That doesn't mean we aren't professionals, or are hobbyists. The reality is that being a composer is always a struggle, just like being in a rock band is a struggle, unless you happen to be in Aerosmith. Some months are great and other months leave you wondering if someone cut your phone line. It's scary. So yes, 10 grand or whatever the full new VSL costs, is a LOT of money to most people...many pros included.

JMHO
TH

Sorry, you are absolutely right. I did not mean to imply that if you cant afford VSL, you arent a professional. I was thinking too narrowly about VSL's target audience, which are the people you mention who are scoring the next XBOX game or similar. They can, I dare say, comfortably afford it.

@Christian Marcussen said:

Sorry, you are absolutely right. I was thinking too narrowly about VSL's target audience, which are the people you mention who are scoring the next XBOX game or similar.

Dummy!

[[[:D]]] [[[:D]]] [[[:D]]]

Hey, quoting me while I was trimming my post.. fast little bugger aren't ya? [:D]

I'll tell you what I'll buy it if you throw in the gigs to pay for it as well... no problems

@magates said:

I'll tell you what I'll buy it if you throw in the gigs to pay for it as well... no problems

??

Anyway, regarding fair or not. Personaly I need to see what new sample content we get, before I can decide if I find it fair. I'm increasingly getting the feeling that the primary ingredience of this new version is the VI and the 24bit samples. If thats the case I find the price very hard to justify... It must be chuck full of new exciting material. I hope we can see really soon what the new material consists of...

Horizon Solostrings is like 29gb, and the extended Solostrings is 38 (diden't I read that somewhere?). But that does not tell us a great deal since the VI solostrings are 24bit, so obviously bigger in size.

I would really like to see a clearly organised chart of whats new in the extrended VI version of the varrious collections. Soon?

Its a tough call who the $12000 is aimed at. The way how most prof. composers work is in a template, the "get what you need when you need it" approach is not practical...it works when you are writing your score out first and then realize it with the library because you know exactly what you need and what you don't need. Still, loading in everything will take more time than we mostly have.

So in order to make this new library really work, you probably need 2-4 dedicated machines (I saw in the videodemo that the VA he was showing us used up 450MB of RAM !! that's one instrument only...) ...setup up a template with all the possible articulations and add them to your template. There is your VSL Orchestra, premixed, ready to rock...no loading time (which is another issue when using it on one machine...you switch between cues and have to load up the entire library again, at least with EXS shared samples stay in memory so loading time is reduced)

So the total cost for the VI + Computers + Audiointerfaces etc...is very high, I don't want to speculate but somewhere in 20G's range...

Only a composer who works on a very highprofile (and high paying) project can afford something like that...BUT most of those projects will probably record a real orchestra (a lot of XBOX games have real orchestras) so the composer doesn't need to deliver a mockup that contains every detail of the orchestra (in a VSL sense) but a mockup to show his concept of the music to the director.
Mockups have to be great (and a lot better than 10 years ago) nowadays but you can accomplish that with ProEdition/SISS/EWest other librarys...

So I don't know,...of course its not as black and white but in a nutshell...

Well, I am curious to hear the new stuff anyways...I always had my criticism about the slightly "harsh" sound of the library (especially strings). The phasing sound of the velocity layer of the Oboe in the VI velfade Demo/Video is mindboggling...as Peter goes thru each layer it sounds like a different oboe playing and partially 2 oboes playing in between....has anybody noticed that ? Not so great! Not very real sounding...I would chose one layer with a pure volume fade over that sound...

Although, I have to give the VSL team props ...a step into the future, somebody had to do the first step...others will follow. It's a beginning and will be wonderful in a few years when computers are powerful enough to load up an entire Orchestral pallette in one session.

Funny, when I say what you guys have been saying, people get upset. It's pretty expensive even as a VIP member!!

@Beaswax said:

Funny, when I say what you guys have been saying, people get upset. It's pretty expensive even as a VIP member!!

Thats because of a) the way you say it b) Most, if not all your 20 posts have been complaining. Thats like 100%. In contrast others have maybe 95% of praising, helping and discussing this library.

So you might indeed find it funny - but it is in no way strange.

Have a nice day [:)]

@Another User said:

The Standard Library contains much of the Pro Edition sounds and some new stuff,
while the Extended Library includes all of the Pro Edition - and lots of new stuff.
However, many of the existing articulations were completely redesigned to adapt
them to the improved algorithms of the Vienna Instruments software.

"The Standard Library contains much of the Pro Edition sounds"and that why I consider it fair to offer an upgrade patch to the Standard Edition Vienna Instruments.
The VSL offer is very fair to those who intend to get the Complete editions, though.

tele

Wow,

doubleposts are not really making it easier to follow the discussions.

Thanks for your understanding,

Paul

@Paul said:

Wow,
doubleposts are not really making it easier to follow the discussions.
Thanks for your understanding,
Paul

Is that directed to me, because i used this quote from the FAQ in 2 independent threads?

tele

We are correcting the wording in the FAQ´s soon, as this is indeed misleading, the amount of new and old samples in the Standard Library differs depending on each volume.

Sorry for the misunderstanding, we are trying hard to watch every word.

Best, Paul