Pro Tools is fine for sequencing if you can play everything in real time. Otherwise its editing is much more cumbersome to move around than any of the composition probrams. It's not so much the features, its the interface. If you want to edit a cc, for example, you have to select it from a drop-down.

Pro Tools is great for what it does - in fact I'm keeping my old G4 just so I don't have to give up my MIX hardware - but being a composition program is simply not its strength. I disagree that its rap is bum; its MIDI sequencer is a good decade behind the others.

A better way of putting it is that the others are way ahead in this area, not so much that Pro Tools' MIDI is bad. It's not bad, it just has a rudimentary interface by comparison.

I couldn't put it better. If you look for example at the straight-forward approach of the SX/Nuendo MIDI-implementation despite its vast possibilities under the hood, you may see that you could do the same with ProTools - but only as long as you dont "grow" with your tasks.

/Dietz

Whatever works for you. Pro Tools sequencing is basically early Performer style stuff, and was designed initially by the same person who did it for MOTU. The midi stuff has gotten a lot stronger in 6.9, and will probably continue to grow. Their are niceties I wish it had (assigning a fader to control CC or even tempo.....VISION used to do that about ten years ago), but for everyday writing I do just fine. I do large orchestral stuff all the time without a hitch. I do wish I could print out the score though...


Digidesign avoided the trap of looking like they added midi to an audio program. All of the other programs I've seen look like they've added audio to a sequencing program. Digi kept the interface so clean it's hard to tell there's a sequencer and MIDI features even available on a cursory look. Selecting a drop down for CC, for example, just keeps the interface clean. Takes what....a second?

Certainly no worse than slicing midi out of a section in Logic, then having to "SELECT ALL FOLLOWING" then having to PULL the two pieces together to close the gap. Insane. So all the programs have their quirks.

The strongest point of a Digidesign product is their product support (try that with Steinberg or Logic) and their incessant testing. I think they have the most solid product on the market. I've used their stuff for about 12 years now, and ever been unhappy with anything but their prices.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it[;)]

TH

I agree that Pro Tools is solid and that when they tell you to use xxx combination, it's been tested to work

Then again, that doesn't take into account a friend's friend who recently lost a Mick Jagger vocal take when it decided to have a bad day. [:)] (True story.)

But hitting command ] to select all following is hardly a quirk in my book. What bothers me most about sequencing in PT is that you can't just hit a key to get at what you want to edit - and being an almost-keyboard player, I rely upon editing a lot.

On the other hand, I like the audio editing and mixing interface very much. That's why I keep it around on a separate machine, lightpiped to Logic I/O plug-ins.

@tom@aerovons.com said:

Whatever works for you.[...] The strongest point of a Digidesign product is their product support (try that with Steinberg or Logic) and their incessant testing. I think they have the most solid product on the market. I've used their stuff for about 12 years now, and ever been unhappy with anything but their prices.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it[;)]

TH

Whatever works for you [;)] ... I've made the opposite experiences, especially in regard of product support.

/Dietz

@tom@aerovons.com said:

Whatever works for you.[...] The strongest point of a Digidesign product is their product support (try that with Steinberg or Logic) and their incessant testing. I think they have the most solid product on the market. I've used their stuff for about 12 years now, and ever been unhappy with anything but their prices.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it[[;)]]

TH

Whatever works for you [;)] ... I've made the opposite experiences, especially in regard of product support.

/Dietz

Very possible the situation is different in Europe. Over here, I challenge anyone to call Steinberg tech support, Logic support, MOTU support, then Digi, and tell me which one was most helpful. Or should I say....least frustrating[[;)]]

[quote=Nick Batzdorf]I agree that Pro Tools is solid and that when they tell you to use xxx combination, it's been tested to work

Then again, that doesn't take into account a friend's friend who recently lost a Mick Jagger vocal take when it decided to have a bad day. [:)] (True story.)

That stinks, but truthfully could have happened in any program on any computer on a given day. That's why Roger Nichols continued to track on a Sony 48 track forever, because he said he never lost a take on anything but a computer.....[;)]


"But hitting command ] to select all following is hardly a quirk in my book. What bothers me most about sequencing in PT is that you can't just hit a key to get at what you want to edit - and being an almost-keyboard player, I rely upon editing a lot."


It wasn't the key command to select all following, I remember it had no automatic mode (when I used it) that would close the gap when sliced a piece out, so you had to select all following, then grab the right hand piece in drag it left to close the gap yourself. All sorts of time consuming things like that. But I did love the notation, and the sheer power of the program. I was really hoping Apple would work on the interface. Maybe they still will...

"On the other hand, I like the audio editing and mixing interface very much. That's why I keep it around on a separate machine, lightpiped to Logic I/O plug-ins."

Getting back to the initial intent of this thread, you CAN use Pro Tools and VSL together successfully. Many of us do. Now moving on...

Speaking about Pro Tools TDM and not LE - as you're not going to invest those kind of dollars in TDM hardware if audio isn't at the top of your list of priorities....

Pro Tools is first and foremost an AUDIO recorder, editor and mixing solution. Most of the major recording studios and audio post houses that I have worked in use Pro Tools, not Cubase or Logic or DP. I use Pro Tools, Digital Performer and Logic and Pro Tools is in my OPINION the hands down winner for audio work. As I've said elsewhere on the forum, Midi in Pro Tools is like early Vision (and not even). But it works just fine.

@Another User said:

Then again, that doesn't take into account a friend's friend who recently lost a Mick Jagger vocal take when it decided to have a bad day. [:)] (True story.)

To be fair, I have seen almost every major brand of hardware and software fail at one point or another, and at the worst moment, regardless of who is in the room. If that was a qualifier there wouldn't be anyone left in the industry to buy from.

Bill

True.

From what you say, it sounds like maybe I should buy an Mbox as a dongle and run PT LE on the G5 just so i can keep up with the software updates.

@Another User said:

Whatever works for you [;)] ... I've made the opposite experiences, especially in regard of product support.

/Dietz

Very possible the situation is different in Europe. Over here, I challenge anyone to call Steinberg tech support, Logic support, MOTU support, then Digi, and tell me which one was most helpful. Or should I say....least frustrating[;)]

DSP Bill gave me the hint that my message my be misunderstood (sorry, English is only my third language). I have to point out that I'm _not_ talking about technical support in the sense of people giving you help, but the long time it took DigiDesign to catch up with developments other companies already made in certain aspects of DAW-software. If you are forced to work with several platforms on a daily basis (like I am), you get a good comparison about their possibilities and restraints. And MIDI is one of those aspects.

The Digi-guys I deal with here in central Europe are extremly supportive (i.e. SMM Munich).

But then, the perfect DAW has yet to be built [;)]

/Dietz

@Dietz said:

But then, the perfect DAW has yet to be built [;)]

/Dietz

How right you are! [:D]

Bill

Hey guys....will KONTAKT run in standalone on the Mac?

In other words, could I use one Mac for PT and another Mac to run KONTAKT with VSL on it? That way I could get rid of the PC (running GiGA) and stay in Mac land....

Thanks
Tom

Yes, and Kontakt 2 has 64 MIDI channels. But do you have VSL in Kontakt format? And what about the Performance Tool?

@Nick Batzdorf said:

Yes, and Kontakt 2 has 64 MIDI channels. But do you have VSL in Kontakt format? And what about the Performance Tool?

I have the Perf Tool.....and Pro Edition...but I only have it all in GIGA format. I suppose it would be a fortune to change over....but to me it might be worth it....I have nothing but problems with the PC and would be glad to be in all Mac studio again....so this whole thing would work OK??

Tom

@Nick Batzdorf said:

Yes, and Kontakt 2 has 64 MIDI channels. But do you have VSL in Kontakt format? And what about the Performance Tool?

I have the Perf Tool.....and Pro Edition...but I only have it all in GIGA format. I suppose it would be a fortune to change over....but to me it might be worth it....I have nothing but problems with the PC and would be glad to be in all Mac studio again....so this whole thing would work OK??

Tom

AFAIK there is no Kontact version of most of the VSL library, so you would have to convert it somehow.

DG

Is there a way to use LOGIC in some kind of standalone mode so that I could use VSL on a Mac that ran the EXS sampler?

TH

(Uh - double posting)

Yes, of course. I know several people doing so. Logic acts like a glorified MIDI-rack in this case. There are some things to take care for in this scenario, so make sure to consult all those knowledgable guys in our Logic-Forum before you try.

/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library

a-hah caught you! I knew you were artifically inflating your post count Deitz [:D]