Opinions on this demo for short film "The Bet"

[weslldeckers]

Please, take a listen to this
http://home.hetnet.nl/~weslldeckers66/dm_drink_wkrprnt%20F3.mp3
and opinionate!

I composed this demo this weekend with my new equipment. It's for my own short movie "The Bet", which I shot in 1999, re-edited in early 2001, and which was never completed because at that time I couldn't do sound FX or music.I tried to find someone to do both, but (paid) work took over and I never find the time to finish it. Especially since the short film is kinda nice, but nothing more than that.

"The Bet" is about 4 people playing Russian Roulette with poisoned drinks. There's a table full of glasses, with only 3 which are poisoned. The film ends just as the last two 'contestants' finish the last two drinks. I temped the final scene with a track from "The Cassandra Crossing" (Jerry Goldsmith) which build and build and got more agitated with each bar.

My demo doesn't fit the scene (I still have to do sound FX first and then make a timing table) but the intention is that the part with the computer sounds runs under the end credits.


So. Take a listen and bring me your opinions. Like it? Why? Don't like it? Why?
More important: do you think it sounds like a unique voice (however untrained it may be)?

So far, I've been improvising my music layer by layer with completely synthesised sounds. Mostly abstract music.
I'm trying to expand now.

For this demo, I used the GigaStudio 3 included VSL instruments: timpani, 'all orchestral percussion', horn ensemble and trombone ensemble.
As well as the DX 11 synth from BiggaGiggas and 8 bit computer noises from Discovery Sound.
As soon as the Opus Bundle arrives I'll try to work on the articulations some more. So far, I'm overenjoyed to finally be able to get some realistic sounds. I previously worked with a soundblaster card and an old analog General Music MIDI module.

[Jonathan Mitchell]

I rather liked it. For my taste, I would add a bit more reverb - particularly for your Wagnerian sounding brass. I found it easy to listen to. I thought I could sense a 60's movie type feel also. I'm not sure about the synthesised bibbles. If you are going to have a climax and there is a gong in the room - well it's impossible to resist giving it a big whack at the end isnt' it?

[weslldeckers]

@Another User said:

If you are going to have a climax and there is a gong in the room - well it's impossible to resist giving it a big whack at the end isnt' it?

...quite impossible... [[;)]]

[weslldeckers]

Anyway, thanks for your comments. I haven't gotten around using reverb yet. Wagnerian brass... a very stimulating critique for this newcomer to the orchestral-sample field! I'm not very fond of operas, but have a weakness for Wagner's deep brass writing.

I have played up the demo to the finale of my short film and I'm not sure about those computer sounds as well... They do not fit the pacing. However, I like playing around with these unconventional sounds... so perhaps they'll surface in the real score later on...

Thank you. Anybody else willing to opinionate? Would be much appreciated...

[metrobot]

wow, quite adventurous. Unique mix of ideas. I wasn't really able to get my head around it due to some specific problems:

The computer sounds are annoying, to me anyway. No reverb makes it sound like you have a giant brass section in your living room, which ads to the fakeness of the sound. The piece is overly quantized. And finally, there isn't enough variation in the articulations you used. It sounds too keyboardish. If you are going to use the same set of instruments for the entire piece, I'd want to hear more contrast in their playing style to keep it interesting.

These things made it difficult to hear the music. The music, for the most part, seems very competent and has potential. But these other problems obscure that.

I hate getting bad reviews myself, so sorry for this downer! But more than anything, I think if you made a few changes, the appeal of this piece would be greatly enhanced.

[weslldeckers]

Thanks Metrobot. It's constructive. Useful.
The Opus Bundle has just arrived... so this weekend it's PLAYTIME! I hope to get a richer palette of articulations in the next version of it.

As a relative newcomer to composing (and quite 'selfmade')... what do you mean by quantized? ...too rigid in metre? (It is...)

[metrobot]

yes, too rigid in metre. I'm jealous of your Opus bundle! enjoy...

[William]

I thought this has good ideas in it. It needs to have the space provided by some large hall reverb to go along with the huge sounding brass. That would definitely give it more power and make it less artificial sounding. Also, to have more realistic phrasing - put in some breath marks, or make them more noticeable if you have them already. I'm not sure about the computerized sounds in this specific example, though it is a good concept. Mathis here has done some very interesting things with mixing radically different universes.

[mathis]

I found mixing this monstrous romantic orchestral gesture with absolutely lofi digital sounds very refreshing. Kind of ironic comment to the usage of digital samples.
Is that intended?

[William]

you see? This is why I just love Mathis's attitude. "Monstrous romantic orchestral gesture" !! wow! I'm going to write that down. I want to do one of those!

[weslldeckers]

@Another User said:

Kind of ironic comment to the usage of digital samples.
Is that intended?

...sort of. The people in the film have made a bet and play a game woth their lives for money (kinda Roahld Dahl-ish). No motivation is given. Almost like they're just playing a computer game. The 8 bit sounds refer to that aspect.
At the same time, since I previously have only worked with abstract synth sounds, it is a 'funny' or ironic way to enter the orchestral sample world.

And many thanks for your 'monstrous' gesture! Another stimulating comment.

[mathis]

You´re welcome. [[;)]]

[JWL]

Nice track! Great rhythmic energy and a great concept with the hybrid mix of electronics and virtual sonic reality.

I see what people mean by "reverb". More importantly to this listener is the impression that some legato release samples are missing. That would add greatly to the realism of the brass. We've all heard brass players in a small room, but there are believable qualities with VSL that can be appreciated well before the reverb space scaping process begins.

I think weslldeckers is onto something quite valid, musically speaking. I hope he posts his finished mix as well.

[weslldeckers]

Stage 7 is now available on my site. The VSL-demo-instruments have been replaced by their Opus counterparts.

http://home.hetnet.nl/~weslldeckers66/dm_drink_wkrprnt%20F3.mp3

For now... this is it! My system isn't exactly running faultless, causing much frustration and need for reboots.
The mix is not entirely in balance, but sounds much better than the F3-workprint.

Feel free to comment on this F7-workprint. Many thanks!

[metrobot]

god, i've never paid so much attention to this kind of piece! I hate to admit it, but the computer noise is starting to grow on me. And I see what JWL means by release trails. That would help. But I didn't mean "reverb", I meant reverb. It also needs honest to goodness reverb, even if it's a small room verb.

I think this is a better version, and I'm appreciating the musical content more. But the brass still is either too fakey, or not fakey enough. The articulation or velocity switches are nice, but they happen too suddenly to be realistic.

but i'm enjoying hearing this develop. nice work!

[weslldeckers]

@Another User said:

And I see what JWL means by release trails. That would help. But I didn't mean "reverb", I meant reverb. It also needs honest to goodness reverb, even if it's a small room verb.

errr... I need some help with this. Not "reverb" but reverb. Release trails - is that the same as the RS (release samples)?

I'm quite frustrated at the moment. Not because of all the comments and suggestions... they are very helpful. I appreciate those...
But with a system that isn't exactly running like it should (Im guessing there may be some problem with the Terratec's firewire connection) and ALL THOSE POSSIBILITIES with Giga and VSL - I'm gonna freak out!

There are lots of things I have to learn. I love learning new things. I learn pretty fast. Only - there's so little time!

I get it when one speaks about missing 'legato' samples. But what do I do with them? The performance-legato instruments do not have all those articulations from the standard instruments.
I used reverb (Gigapulse) on all instruments but the synth (a memory Moog, btw, not a DX11) and I think it helped the track already.
The finetuning, however, is tempering my enthusiasm a bit. I don't like computers. In fact - I HATE THEM! and now I'm spending a great deal of time finding the right way(s) of making this brass sound 'real'...
And rebooting after each time I load a GigaPulse onto a channel isn't fun.


...sorry for this whining... I'm a bit tired and quite dissapointed I can't work faster yet. What I really should do, is go through the forum's archive to find all my answers...

[irvind]

Hello mate, personally I quite like your use of computer sounds, they're well-placed and give the piece some unusual drama..

VSL is a strange beast, it has so much capability and quality, but it's not that easy to use straight out of the box without some perseverance. I should know, I've had the strings for over a year now and have hardly used all those great samples!

I'm sure searching around the forum will help you a bit.

Good luck!