@Michael Canavan said:

While I can mostly agree with this, but it's been 2 1/2 years since Apple Silicon was announced, along with developer Minis, and 2 years since the first M1 Macs came out. I was around for the first transition from PPC to Intel machines, and I remember only NI dragging their feet a little, they had foolishly not headed Apples warnings to switch from Codewarrior to to Xcode. 

  Part of the problem is Rosetta this time works really pretty well, a maybe 10% CPU hit on average, but it doesn't work at all for VST and MAS if the DAW is not in Rosetta. So the hit is compounded when your DAW is also in Rosetta. Anyway I thought the VEP plug in would be a rather quick port considering the opportunity for VSL to pick up new customers as people used VEP to transition, but that's not the case apparently. 

The last transition from PPC to intel was not nearly as well executed.  Many people, including me, were left high and dry with expensive PPC Macs that would not run the latest tools and become worthless pieces of junk within one year.

This time around Apple handled things much better and the end result is that it is M1 users who ware still wanting and waiting for all of the software world to catch up.  Apple did things in such a way that Intel users would not be left behind..and so far 1.5 years later my Intel machine is still going very strong and still preferable to M1.  You must remember that software developers have to earn money and it costs them money to do any software change, including Apple Silicon.  They will always have to weigh all the factors of what is most important with the resources they have and do what is best for their business....this may mean that M1 users, whom are still the minority...have to keep waiting while other priorities still address the majority of users still using Intel.

I personally am thankful that Apple handled this transition much better then what they did last time from PPC.  We did not get left in the dust and all of us can transition to M1 in a more graceful manner when its time.  

Anyone that jumps onto M1 early and then complains that the software isn't ready, should look in the mirror and ask themselves why they purchased a new M1 before the software was ready.

I jumped in with Silicon because I need it for my workflow, my DAW no longer fully supports my 5,1 Mac Pro. I'm trying to figure out a strategy for getting along without a native M1 version of VEPro 7.

I've seen mention of the AU plugin working natively under Silicon-- is that correct? If so, is it possible to use it in Pro Tools and DP11? I imagine not, as people would be doing it, but if so, I could still run all my VSL software on my 5,1 slave.

If not I can run everything that's NOT vsl on my Mac Studio and give up my vsl libraries. Unless there's some convoluted way to get MIDI to VEPro 7 on my slave using Audio MIDI and the MIDI networking feature.

For example, could I run some kind of simple DAW in input mode on the 5,1 slave with the VEPro 7 plugin running, connected to the VEPro server on the same slave, and then send MIDI to the DAW from my Mac Studio? I could get the audio back to the Mac Studio either with Bidule or ADAT lightpipe between the slave interface and the master interface (MoTU 828es and 2408 Mk III). Is this crazy???

@dmansfield said:

I jumped in with Silicon because I need it for my workflow, my DAW no longer fully supports my 5,1 Mac Pro. I'm trying to figure out a strategy for getting along without a native M1 version of VEPro 7.

I've seen mention of the AU plugin working natively under Silicon-- is that correct? If so, is it possible to use it in Pro Tools and DP11? I imagine not, as people would be doing it, but if so, I could still run all my VSL software on my 5,1 slave.

If not I can run everything that's NOT vsl on my Mac Studio and give up my vsl libraries. Unless there's some convoluted way to get MIDI to VEPro 7 on my slave using Audio MIDI and the MIDI networking feature.

For example, could I run some kind of simple DAW in input mode on the 5,1 slave with the VEPro 7 plugin running, connected to the VEPro server on the same slave, and then send MIDI to the DAW from my Mac Studio? I could get the audio back to the Mac Studio either with Bidule or ADAT lightpipe between the slave interface and the master interface (MoTU 828es and 2408 Mk III). Is this crazy???

I can in fact confirm that AU plugin of VEP7 WILL work in DP when DP is run in native mode.  Just not MAS.  So you could build a template entirely out of AU instances of VEP connected to your server.  The problem with that of course is just that AU plugins won't allow for multiple (up to 48) midi ports like MAS so you need A LOT more of them if you intend on building a large template.

@Another User said:

Unless there's some convoluted way to get MIDI to VEPro 7 on my slave using Audio MIDI and the MIDI networking feature.

You could use The non pro version of Vienna Ensemble on your 5,1.  Send network midi to it...and mix the audio back into your M1 or wherever using various digital audio means rather then through the plugin...there might be some latency in there and you lose the elegant mechanism whereby normally VePro can do Plugin Delay Compensation to sync everything up perfectly.  But its certainly doable until VePro catches up with Apple Silicon.

@dmansfield said:

I've seen mention of the AU plugin working natively under Silicon-- is that correct? If so, is it possible to use it in Pro Tools and DP11? I imagine not, as people would be doing it, but if so, I could still run all my VSL software on my 5,1 slave.

If not I can run everything that's NOT vsl on my Mac Studio and give up my vsl libraries. Unless there's some convoluted way to get MIDI to VEPro 7 on my slave using Audio MIDI and the MIDI networking feature

So the VEP AU plug in runs in Rosetta on Apple Silicon Macs with the DAW running native. I suppose there's some convoluted way to run something like Blue Cats Patchwork in AAX to host the AU VEP plug in, inside Pro Tools, but if you're going this route the best bet is DP11 which hosts AU natively. The issue is like Even pointed out that MAS is just better, it's a whole lot of rewriting templates to get decent results and then VSL finally release the native Apple Silicon version with MAS etc. 

The better solution if all you do is orchestral work is to run the DAW in Rosetta, use the actual MAS etc. plugin you want to use, and use your 5,1 as a slave. 

Just curious if VSL would release beta version of AS VEP ? Lots of different software companies like Soundtoys, xfer, output, .. create beta programs so people with no critical projects/work can already try, and if there are any bugs, report them. 

Out of curiosity if this is of interest to anyone new to DP on M1, I just tested DP running VEP AU (DP Native) vs MAS (DP in Rosetta) using my full scoring template, with video attached.  

1 - DP in Rosetta, VEP MAS:

• Pros: much lower Real time processing load/cpu usage, with the advantage of having multiple midi ports per instance.
• Cons:  GUI is somewhat less responsive, or less smooth.  Noticeable graphics anomalies when changing tabs.

2 - DP Native, VEP AU:

• Pros:  DP runs very smoothly. GUI is quick and responsive. Excellent user experience by comparison.
• Cons:  Higher real time processing/cpu load with VEP in AU format (DP's load without VEP instances is minimal).  Only a single midi port per VEP instance. 

So, those are our options.  I am moving my scoring work to DP, and have an M1 Mac sitting here waiting, with scoring projects coming very soon.  DP simply does not run well enough on Windows (my i7 at least), to be usable (GUI is way too slow).  That leaves very few options.  

We really need native compatibility for VEPro MAS ASAP.  AU isn't a viable option for me and probably many other DP users.  Note that DP was native compatible not long after the first M1s were released.  It was native at least in November of 2020 - two years ago.  MOTU may have been better positioned to make the transition quickly, but if they can do it, others could have as well. To be honest, copy protection is only for the benefit of the developer (again DP's simple system is a good example).  It should never get in the way of customers or our work.  

VSL - we are at the point even a rough timeframe for native compatibility is better than nothing.  Many of us are having to consider costly alternatives to VSL and VEPro that, given the reality of our schedules, won't be temporary.  That could mean lost sales for VSL in the future, and probably already has for customers new to VEPro and VSL.  

I am in the exact same boat! The graphics and tabs in DP are really wonky in Rosetta mode but given ALL my VSL templates are built using the multi port MAS version there is no efficient way to convert them all! I have been super patient, but this is really getting frustrating! 

I've decided to abandon VEP entirely. We've been waiting 2,5 years, and quite frankly, I halved the processing overhead in Nuendo 12 after removing VEP.

I've been a VEP user since 2011, teaching it in universities and engaged in the community, but there's a limit to how long it's possible to wait. VSL is among the last to fix M1 compatibility, only passed by a couple of old-school plugin manufacturers like Lexicon, Musictribe and Kush Audio (which will probably never fix their plugins, their codebase is too old). I've abandoned those as well, and will recommend any students to do the same.

It was a pain rebuilding the template into disabled instrument tracks instead, but worth it. For remote usage of plugins and libraries, I'll look into Audiogridder instead in the future.

@snattack said:

For remote usage of plugins and libraries, I'll look into Audiogridder instead in the future.

Wow.. sounds good. Thnx for the info.

Looks like VSL is updating and releasing new stuff, but nothing related to VEP. I guess it's time to move on.

I got quite excited whenI saw that update come in yesterday! Oh well, time to move on I think..

The update has just borked my entire setup. I'm totally unable to connect to any of my existing instances. The whole thing is an utter disaster. There's often very little in the way of tech support and it's had me tearing my hair out all afternoon. I simply can't afford to waste the time with this anymore. I'll be using next week (I have a bit of rare downtime) to move across to a deactivated template. I'd be interested in hearing from anyone who's done the same. I'm writing in huge frustration at the moment, so might calm down, but we're all under enough deadline pressure without this nonsense getting in the way. Sorry if that's a little intemperate. I'm fed up/stressed.

[quote=snattack;313675]

For remote usage of plugins and libraries, I'll look into Audiogridder instead in the future.

That's what I'm doing as well( loading all libraries disabled). It takes a little longer to access instruments (enable) and projects can be quite big with lots of instruments loaded but it's much cleaner.

I'll look into this, although I have to say a single computer setup sounds very appealing). 

The constraint, as ever, is RAM, but now Cubase supports freezing multiple tracks, that should be less of an issue. 

I'll see if they can fix VEPro, I'm extremely frustrated right now, but if they can get it working again, it really is a useful tool. However, I'm actively exploring alternatives. I just can't afford to be letting clients down like this.

Hello Mike,

Sorry to hear that you are negatively affected by the last update. We are currently investigating - but in the meanwhile, the rollback feature (via the right-click context menu) will allow you to get back quickly to the previous VE Pro version.

=> Software Rollback - Context Menu

Best,
Andreas

I setup an i9 sample server last night, and the latest version of VEPro (7.1.1427), and can confirm it has serious bugs.  In my case, connecting from the main host (M1 Mac), caused VEP on the i9 to create a new instance with a truncated name.  If the original instance I connected to was named "Strings", the new instance would be "ngs".  I couldn't simply use the new instance.  Saving and reopening a project caused the same bug - connections would create a new blank instance and connect to that.  

I have an i7 server working fine with VEP 7.1.1298, so I rolled VEP on the i9 back to .1298 and it now works fine.  Both servers are connected.  I would withdraw 7.1.1427 from VSL's downloads and installer. 

I'm having the same issues on a networked Mac. I rebuilt a program that worked, but now everything is coming back distorted. This is only on the networked Mac, not the Mac running VEP.

I tried rolling back to the previous version, but it wiped the VEP AU plug in from Digital Performer.

Really not sure how to proceed.

Jon Newton
Portland, Oregon

I'll try a rollback asap (not in the studio for a few days now). I hope that works! Thanks for the info

VSL LiveChat <livechat@vsl.co.at>
           
17 Nov 2022, 19:26 (14 hours ago)
           
to me
Hello Oliver,
 
thanks for getting in touch.
 
You can use all our samples & software on the macOS Ventura. Our software also works with the M1 and M2 chips, and it works surprisingly well on Rosetta 2. You can find more information about Rosetta 2 here:
 
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT211861
 
Apple's M1 and M2 and chips are not yet officially supported, but we have this high on our priority list. Our developers are working on full-native support for Apples new Silicon CPUs - but we don't have an ETA at this point.

iLok works fine with Pro Tools, Ivory, Omnisphere and a lot of software on my Mac Studio (Rosetta).  I've never been in love with iLok but it's never caused me much trouble either.  Pro Tools is going native soon.  They're testing Beta now w developers.  

The truth is, with my Mac Studio, I no longer need VEP.  Sad.  I love its economy and organization - and I have a mountain of old sessions that depend on it. Rebuilding those without VEP will be an enormous headache.  

Last I heard, Apple is nowhere near as big in Europe as it is in North America.  I suspect this is a bit of what's going on.  When I switched from analogue tape to digital in the 80's, Apple was the only game in town for audio.
I never left the platform, although we did buy a bunch of Windows machines in the nineties when we were developing interactive multimedia.  From that experience, I have no plans of switching to Windows anytime soon!  

I think letting VEP slide much longer will be a big loss for VSL.  Maybe they should switch to a subscription model to provide enough funds to keep VEP up to date?  Avid did it.  It's expensive.  And I would hate it but, since they started the subscription thing, Pro Tools has finally started working again.