Hi,

Sorry about the frustration. I get the point. 

You're asking, and I am answering, honest and friendly.

Best, 
Paul

Hi Paul,

Without knowing or caring about how VSL is internally structured, I do assume your best intentions, while realizing that your hands may be tied regarding certain matters or decisions. A friendly interaction with your customers is always welcome and appreciated, and sometimes it may be all that's needed. 

For such a simple request as the silent key though, just being friendly stops being enough after 3 years. Whatever the reasons are, these are no longer relevant when the implementation of such a feature can be written, compiled, tested, packaged into a new installer and uploaded on the server during literally one lunch break. 3 years and counting for the implementation of such a simple feature would not be understandable even for a product that costs €10 and I hope you agree that this is a little hard to swallow.

Regarding the -- let me put on my soft gloves and merely call it "sub-optimal" -- sympathetic resonance, this is a little different, since this is not a new feature request, but a fix request. There is a widget on that UI which reads "Sympathetic". As long as it's on that interface, it becomes one of the features that customers have paid for, a feature they've learnt to take for granted in the last decade because most, if not all other VST pianos have implemented it substantially better than VSL. After 3 years of waiting, a customer is not interested in hearing about how difficult such a feature implementation is, especially since your products are priced much higher than the ones that have implemented this feature successfully. Not even having an ETA after all this time makes matters worse.

What's even sadder is the fact that there are other issues that bug me even more than these two, in all 5 VSL pianos that I own, and you made it pretty clear to me in previous posts that these won't get addressed either. It's a pity, really. The potential for something amazing was definitely there, these could have been THE vst pianos, period. Instead they are merely good but overpriced pianos with a few issues, and the fact that they are packed to the brim with velocity layers does not change that. That's just my opinion.

I hope that you'll find at least tiny bits of my critique useful and I sincerely wish you and VSL a world of success.

Hi Paul,

I totally agree with the people expressing dismay regarding the sympathetic feature. It only does a little bit up to about six and then it turns to mud. Nothing like the sound of actually having the pedal depressed when a note is played.

I have a very simple solution that should use no CPU and would make me at least extremely happy. The sound with the pedal down is definitely superior. Put in an option to use the pedal down samples instead of the pedal up samples (when the pedal is up). I actually did this with the 10-year-old Imperial by means of sample robot and then the Kontakt 4 sampler. Unfortunately the process degraded the sound.

I hope VSL will take this suggestion very seriously because it would truly make these superior pianos (I have both the Bösendorfer Imperial and the Steinway).

Best, Phil

Hello again Paul,

I will add that I've done extensive analysis of my piano sound versus numerous recordings at YouTube and it's clear that when both are using no pedal, mine is superior. When both are using the pedal, mine is superior. But when the recordings are using the pedal and mine is not the recordings are superior.

One main difference with virtual pianos is to get the full pedal resonance you have to have the pedal down before the note is struck. With a real piano, if you depress the pedal immediately after striking a note you will still get most of the resonance. I've checked this on my piano. But not with the virtual piano. And it's extremely difficult if not impossible to have the pedal down before the note without catching the previous note — unless you want an audible gap in sound. I've spent many hours working on this and analyzing all of this. Plus the pedal down samples would give a delightful sound to all notes that are played.

If desired, you could give the option of having the pedal down samples for every microphone position individually, in case some people wanted to mitigate the effect. But it should definitely be available for all the microphones.

I am currently just redoing the recordings I made years ago using your earlier Bösendorfer Imperial and the midi clips I made then, with your Steinway. Thanks, Phil

I would very much appreciate a response, Paul. And if you don't intend to do this please tell me why. It seems like it would be a very simple thing to do and would make many people happy. Theoretically everyone.

If you absolutely won't do it I will have to figure out a way to do it myself. But it will be extremely time consuming, and if I have to do it I want to get started on it now.

I guess I'm dumb but it took me a long time to realize why sometimes my mix sounded better than other recordings and other times it sounded worse. I guess it's because I assumed the sympathetic was doing what you said it would. My solution this would definitely make it a superior piano.

Best, Phil

I just wanted to put in another vote for improved sympathetic resonance, silent key, and improved una corda (ideally samples, but a better algorithmic una corda, perhaps with adjustability, would also be great). I'd probably put una corda first on that list--and would even pay for an upgrade that included true una corda samples.

I'm certain they won't do una corda since they have to re-record the entire pianos and it would effectively double the size of the download. Frankly I don't even like it on my Baldwin 5'8" grand because when the dampers come down they make a little bit of a twang because not all the strings are vibrating equally. It was that way when it was new. But the sustain resonances would be very simple for them to do.

I've been doing the sustain resonances myself using the sampler Kontakt. If anyone else wants to know how, let me know. It's a bit of work.

@Phil2 said:

I'm certain they won't do una corda since they have to re-record the entire pianos and it would effectively double the size of the download. Frankly I don't even like it on my Baldwin 5'8" grand because when the dampers come down they make a little bit of a twang because not all the strings are vibrating equally. It was that way when it was new. But the sustain resonances would be very simple for them to do.

I've been doing the sustain resonances myself using the sampler Kontakt. If anyone else wants to know how, let me know. It's a bit of work.

I agree true una corda samples are unlikely--but a better una corda model should be doable--and as I think someone else on this forum mentioned could be adjustable (maybe even including felt or moderator options as as alternatives to una corda effect).

Nevertheless, I think una corda samples should be considered, at least for a limited set of pianos and/or mics. The Steinway perhaps has a large enough market to support una corda as a paid upgrade or even separate alternative instrument. The 280VC might be another good candidate, on the assumption Stage B makes scheduling a new recording session easier.

Hi all.

I want to add another voice to the call for proper sympathetic modelling. Its quite startling to me that:

• a product at this price point does such a terrible job of it
• the pianos sound as good as they do without it.

I had to laugh (and agree) with one of the previous comments that referred to it as a “mud slider”. I simply can’t find any level/gain which creates a pleasing enhancement to the sound of the piano.

What’s baffling to me (and I assume and honest mistake???) is that the online manual correctly describes the way you should be able to generate/hear sympathetic resonance, and I quote “You can hear this effect when you hold down a key without sounding it and then briefly hit another key”. https://www.vsl.info/en/manuals/synchron-pianos/play-view

As all of you know, it simply does not work in the way it should (and as described in the manual). Also, as others have already pointed out, products at much lower price points (like Ravenscroft and a think Garritan) do a great job this and to great musical effect.

@VSL. You have some truly great piano libraries (at least to my ear) with the Synchron series and your 14 day returns policy is such a welcome thing for this industry but, please add proper sympathetic modelling (and silent key for that matter). This would turn your already good product into the only piano VST anyone would ever need.

Embertone Walker 1955 1.1 update already make it come true.  

I have to agree with you completely in all aspects. I completely agree with you. I am also a programmer and what you say is just so. It doesn't take 10 minutes to solve the problem. It is simply incomprehensible why it is not possible to spend 10 minutes on this problem in 3 years. Also the problem with symphathek resonance is very unsatisfactory. After all, you have also paid for this function. This is not ok.

Yes, I also think that it is about time that these two important problems are solved. Please write all your frustration here, if you have the same problem. It's no use if you just read it, agree, but don't write anything about it. It only happens something if there are enough frustrated buyers and then just buy other products. Sorry for my English, I am not good at it.

I also support and request this feature. Many other VSTIs correctly implement those. From a developer perspective silent keys shouldn't be that difficult to implement (except for UI/config/etc.), since we could ignore generating sound for notes when it is below a threshold keydown velocity.

Sympathetic resonance would be more challenging one, but it's noteworthy there has been a lot of criticism in the community about the poor sympathetic resonance. Having those features will make VSL synchron pianos even greater.

hi,

I use the Steinway-D trial.

The sound is incredible -> the best Sampled Steinway around the world.

But i don't understand why there is a "Sympathetic Resonance" setting in Synchron Piano player :

-> this feature doesn't work. even if i set it to 0 dB -> no rules between undampered keys.

I love this Steinway, and the soluce to add silence Key and Sympathetic resonance is here :

http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/3230130/steinway-vsl-d-274-pianoteq-to-add-sympathetic-resonance.html#Post3230130

to VSL : just add a Silent Key

and a Switch / option 1 or 2 :

1) Sympathetic resonance with sustain samples only : ok actually when you press pedal down (but if you release up whil key is still down, is still sustain samples that is used)

(already work this way in VSL without Pedal up-> down or down->up transitions) : CPU safe solution

2) Sympathetic Resonance between keys / pedal up / down with DSP engine for close mic(s) only

(like Garritan CFX soluce) : more CPU)

I love this Steinway, but please make a real Sympathetic Resonance DSP engine

Regards,

Olivier F.

Yes, VSL, please add the silent key feature (the ability to depress a key so gradually, under control, with zero acceleration, and a constant very slow speed, that no sound is produced). As everyone else has said, you can of course do that with an acoustic piano.

It's utterly impossible to practice very, very quiet playing with my Vienna Symphonic Library Bösendorfer 280VC, because if I make a mistake and produce something like MIDI vel ocity1, then I still hear a sound with this software, because it's impossible to depress a key and NOT hear something. I wouldn't hear anything with an acoustic piano, or with something like Pianoteq. I know that for a fact, b/c I've done enough experiments. And if I don't hear anything then I know I've gone too far and I need to course-correct. But VSL will mask my error and so it's a useless learning/practicing tool for this kind of thing.

Whenever I want to practice very quiet playing, I have to switch to a better piece of software (better in the sense of it emulating the thing that a virtual piano is supposed to be emulating). In fact it puts me off using VSL at all.

-Steve

Please implement silent key. There are always more users who want a feature than you're aware of. And not all users are equal in terms of their benefit to your ecosystem, so just a simple scalar count doesn't tell you enough. Despite that, I'd say that 5 dissatisfied customers (in this regard) are 5 more than you want.

Hi, 

Thanks for the reminders!

We have not found the time to add this feature yet. Also an improved algorithm for sympathetic resonance is still high on the list for our Synchron Pianos. Also M1 Native Support...  

Can't give you an ETA, but I can tell you that we hear you.

Best,
Paul

Hi,

before next improved Sympathetic Resonance VSL update, here a Script Soluce for silent Key, and overtones, only for Logic pro 10 users (Audio Unit Version of VSL Piano Player):

Link : Only for Mac / LOGIC Pro 10 users

(One track for the main sound with Silent key/ Second track modified for Sympathetic resonance)

V3.8.8 : Updated -> 23 July 2022 :

-> added Overtones rules

-> use the Powerfull EQ VSL feature on each Steinway keys, to use only the first partial at +18dB, in Sympathetic Resonance Logic scripted track : (Very real now)

Latest version in this folder :

https://mega.nz/folder/s44gXSKK#-YkZ6lq2SH8q3RK7LoYgFw

Regards,

Olivier W. Fr.