@Dietz said:

That's what I'm looking at this very moment:

Absolutely gorgeous! Makes the already beautiful venues even more so.

I hope that there will be some more sophisticated wood and fabric textures for the seats. Haha, just joking. 😄

Or to push it even further: I stumbled upon this video and love the 3D presentation of the instruments (without people). Would look very cool in MIR ...

https://www.zylia.co/blog/category/good-reading

The website is also good for those who wants to know more about ambisonics.

I have been thinking often about MIR 3D and I need to ask a few questions to see if I can get a better idea of what to anticipate and how it will integrate into my mixing plans. Dietz, if you can't answer at this stage, I understand, but I'm curious nonetheless!

So,

Will it be possible to open older mixes done in 2.0, 5.1 etc. and retain our 2D staging placements in the new MIR 3D? Will it be relatively painless to convert older MIR mixes into 3D?

What mix formats will MIR 3D offer? Are there any plans to integrate with Atmos or other object based mixing?

Thanks for your interest in our developments!

MIR 3D is still work-in-progress, so there might be changes in the feature set in general or specific changes I can't anticipate, but since you asked, I'll try to give you an idea:

- MIR 3D will based on 3rd order Ambisonics throughout its whole signal path, but of course you will be able to decode in 1st order like MIR Pro does, too. We plan to allow for a painless transition from MIR Pro to MIR 3D (not the other way round, for obvious reasons).

- There _will_ be sonic differences for several reasons, so if you need bit-identical recalls you will have switch back to Pro. 3D and Pro can't coexist side-by-side, otherwise there would be no straight-forward way to migrate existing templates to the new version.

- Format-wise the sky is the limit, from a technical POV. :-) MIR 3D will enhance the existing concept of "capsule-based" decoding (i.e. the individual capsules of the virtual microphone arrays we have in MIR Pro) with an approach that could be called "coefficient-based decoding". The latter can be seen as a way to sculpt and organize the Ambisonics output from a loudspeaker-perspective rather than a microphone-perspective. Sounds a bit confusing, I know. 8-) ... In general, things get _really_ complex quickly when dealing with HOA, so there will be (or better: will _have_ to be) Output Format Presets to deal with multi-channel mixes. 

- These output formats will include all typical surround- and 3D-configurations, some of them maybe even in several flavours. MIR 3D will also be able to deliver the un-decoded Ambisonics audio stream, which opens whole new areas of use-cases. But MIR 3D can _not_ output Dolby Atmos-metadata. You will most likely integrate its chosen, discrete multi-channel output in form of so-called "beds" with your Atmos mix. There are no moving "Objects" in MIR Pro, so that's a non-issue for now.

- A final word of the notion "3D" in context of MIR: As you all know, MIR is based on impulse responses from real halls. IOW: If there was no IR source position, then there's nothing we can put a signal in. Of course we found ways to interpolate and do some other nice trickery, but please keep in mind that this is _not_ an algorithmic reverb engine, so don't expect the option to have a singer flying through the hall. ;-) MIR all about a holistic, enveloping presentation of real (!) rooms and the way instruments (or other sound sources) interact with them.

... let me repeat that this info is based on the most recent developments, but things still might change for the actual release version!

Thanks again for your interest! Highly appreciated.

I haven't understood a single word, but I'm looking forward to it nevertheless, haha. XD

Dietz,

Is there any reason to feel that this 3rd order ambisonic tech will create more "depth" accuracy even while just using stereo results?  

Depending on the chosen decoding method the difference ranges from "subtle" to "dramatic", even in stereo. :-) It's not so much about "depth" per se, more about enveloping and also about decorrelation.

... but then, MIR 3D is not "just" about Higher Order Ambisonics and 3D audio, but also about new concepts of preset creation and management, and of course an overhauled GUI. :-) 

Thank you Dietz :)

Your answers are actually very similar to my speculation, so I feel on track with my conception of what you are up to.

I have been trying out various configurations for 3D audio, including Atmos and I am finding that when I import mixes to work on that use MIR pro as the anchor for all of the placement duties, I do not have an interest to pull it apart to upmix. The space sounds so good in stereo that upmixing techniques aren't quite satisfying and I hesitate to use any "tricks" on it. 

I will be happy to be first in line for the upgrade :)

@Another User said:

I will be happy to be first in line for the upgrade :)

That's good to hear! We'll do our best to meet your expectations. 😊

I'm also very much looking forward for this... and crossing my fingers the upgrade won't be expensive 😳

It may be soon to ask but if I upgrades to MIR 3D can I switch between it and pro(24) for different projects?

Also, in contrast I've been eyeing Spat revolution essentials and I'm wondering in terms of virtual space will MIR 3D also offer some kind of "neutral" space without much of a room\venue feel to it?

@Dietz said:

Depending on the chosen decoding method the difference ranges from "subtle" to "dramatic", even in stereo. 😊 It's not so much about "depth" per se, more about enveloping and also about decorrelation.

... but then, MIR 3D is not "just" about Higher Order Ambisonics and 3D audio, but also about new concepts of preset creation and management, and of course an overhauled GUI. 😊 

Dietz,

If you have the time and inclination, would you be willing to elaborate on what you mean by enveloping and decorrelation?  I think I have an idea of what you're talking about, but I'd love to hear more specifics on it so I can better understand all of this (and apply that knowledge in my own work).  

- Sam

"Enveloping", "decorrelation" ... That's techno babble 😊 for the feeling of being "surrounded by sound" (or in our case: by the room).

Some online-sources for further reading:

-> https://www.sweetwater.com/insync/decorrelation/

-> https://valhalladsp.com/2010/05/12/shimmer-modulation-auto-correlation-and-decorrelation/

-> https://www.jstor.org/stable/3680992

HTH,

Thank you, Dietz.  Those links help me understand the concept better 👍

Hi Milan,

thanks for your interest in our ongoing development work! Highly appreciated.

It's very tempting for me to share my excitement and anticipation, but as you know, it's good ol' VSL company policy no to spill the beans at an early stage. 8-) I'll try to answer your questions as thoroughly as possible nevertheless, but please understand that I won't go into the details. 

@Another User said:

Either way, thanks for the updates and good luck!

You're welcome! Thanks again for your interest. We'll keep you posted ...

Dietz, will the new technology also allow for placing the close/mid mics of the Synchron Series into the other venues? Some kind of magic to interpolate from that sound, and make it coherent with the different venues?

Paolo

@PaoloT said:

Dietz, will the new technology also allow for placing the close/mid mics of the Synchron Series into the other venues? Some kind of magic to interpolate from that sound, and make it coherent with the different venues?

Paolo

Well ... define "magic"! 😉 MIR will always rely on Ambisonics by definition, but the move to HOA (Higher Order Ambisonics) is a significant step towards a much more intense sensation of acoustic "enveloping" that does not need to fear comparison with other recording methods.

@Dietz said:

does not need to fear comparison with other recording methods.

Dietz, I was not clear with my question. What I would like is a way to use the close/mid combo of mics of the Synchron instruments as we are now using any ‘dry' source. But the close/mid combo of the Synchron sounds contain more room information than the ones of the Silent Stage series. Is there any chance MIR 3D will be able to deal with this type of source, treat it as one to be made ‘dry', and place it into any other venue that is not the Synchron Stage?

Paolo

Paolo, the underlying, basic principles of MIR Pro won't change in MIR 3D: Take a source signal (centered and as dry as it makes sense) and put it into a virtual (now three-dimensional) space by means of IRs captured by Ambisonics mics (now able to be decoded in HOA). While it sounds tempting to add it as an additional "magic" ;-) feature, there's no way in MIR to cancel existing spatial information inherent to the input signal.