@DANIELE-ES said:

With VEP6 can I load the template I built with VEP7?

That's not possible. 

Best,
Paul

Well, then I think I have to wait, it is a huge amount of work.

Maybe I could try if I have the same bugs with older version.

VEP template and Reaper template sent via support mail, Case 298575, the same I already opened for the other issues still not solved.

Thank you.

Hi, 

Quick update for everyone following the discussion. We are in contact with our colleagues at Reaper and hope that we can help improving the VST3 performance on their side. 

Best,
Paul

@Paul said:

Hi, 

Quick update for everyone following the discussion. We are in contact with our colleagues at Reaper and hope that we can help improving the VST3 performance on their side. 

Best,
Paul

Another update, the problem with VST3i main plugin seems solved in the latest beta releases of Reaper. The fix anyway will not be in the next official release because some things related to it still need to be tested.

So we should see the fix in a release after the next one.

Ok, I tried the new version of Reaper (v 5.979) and now VST3 seems to works correctly, no more hangs or slowness.

Unfortunately I must say that I don't see a way to use VEP7 efficiently in my template/workflow because:

1 - Event Plugin is buggy and I can't use it, some note plays and some other not;

2 - VST3 midi routing is buggy too on Reaper, if I try to route midi and audio on the same track by activating "Feedback Routing". I cannot use two tracks for every instrument in my template (one for MIDI and one for Audio), it would be too messy, a huge workflow worsening.

So...well...this software is great but I really have no more arrows for my bow.

Ok, I found out that with feedback routing enabled if I send tracks to another track and not directly to the mixer, one of the tracks doesn't sound and doesn't send midi signal to VEP7. With feedback routing disabled everything works, but obviously you don't hear any sound.

@DANIELE-ES said:

Ok, I found out that with feedback routing enabled if I send tracks to another track and not directly to the mixer, one of the tracks doesn't sound and doesn't send midi signal to VEP7. With feedback routing disabled everything works, but obviously you don't hear any sound.

If I'm understanding you correctly, what you're saying is that feedback routing is not working when the individual tracks are routed to BOTH the VEP plugin track AND other tracks (reverb buses, submixes, etc.)

I created a test project where I routed three tracks' MIDI output to a submix track, then routed everything from the submix track to the VEP instance track.  Then, I routed the audio from the VEP instance track back to the three individual tracks using the feedback routing procedure.  Finally, I routed the audio output of those individual tracks to both the master track AND a reverb bus (which then routed to the master as well).  Everything worked fine - I tried muting different things, freezing tracks, etc.  No problems.

I've attached screenshots of the exact settings, ports, sends etc. that I used to create this set-up.  Hopefully this can help you sort out whatever's bugging out on you.  I do apologize if I've misunderstood your set-up in any way.

Overall Project Layout

Routing for Track 1: VEP Instance

Routing for Track 2: SUB-MASTER

Routing for Track 3: MIDI 1

Routing for Track 4: MIDI 2

Routing for Track 5: MIDI 3

Routing for Track 6: VERB BUS

Peace,

- Sam

@DANIELE-ES said:

Ok, I found out that with feedback routing enabled if I send tracks to another track and not directly to the mixer, one of the tracks doesn't sound and doesn't send midi signal to VEP7. With feedback routing disabled everything works, but obviously you don't hear any sound.

If I'm understanding you correctly, what you're saying is that feedback routing is not working when the individual tracks are routed to BOTH the VEP plugin track AND other tracks (reverb buses, submixes, etc.)

I created a test project where I routed three tracks' MIDI output to a submix track, then routed everything from the submix track to the VEP instance track.  Then, I routed the audio from the VEP instance track back to the three individual tracks using the feedback routing procedure.  Finally, I routed the audio output of those individual tracks to both the master track AND a reverb bus (which then routed to the master as well).  Everything worked fine - I tried muting different things, freezing tracks, etc.  No problems.

I've attached screenshots of the exact settings, ports, sends etc. that I used to create this set-up.  Hopefully this can help you sort out whatever's bugging out on you.  I do apologize if I've misunderstood your set-up in any way.

Overall Project Layout

Routing for Track 1: VEP Instance

Routing for Track 2: SUB-MASTER

Routing for Track 3: MIDI 1

Routing for Track 4: MIDI 2

Routing for Track 5: MIDI 3

Routing for Track 6: VERB BUS

Peace,

- Sam

This is not a VEP fault, it has the behavior I talked about with every multitimbral plugin, VSTi and VST3i. This is also confirmed by another user on the Reaper forum and I already warned developers about it.

Look at this: https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=222308

The routing you did it is a bit more complicated than mine I think and from what I understand it is not exactly what I did.

I routed MIDI from single tracks to VEP track, then I routed audio from VEP to single tracks using feedback routing, in the end I routed the audio from single tracks to a bus track and if you'll do the same you will experience the same issue.

The BUS in my template are meant for mixing purposes so they should group instrument sections to control them at once, you are routing midi to BUS, I'm routing audio. My tracks doesn't route directly to master...

The strange thing is that is a matter of track position in the TCP, if I put the BUS track after the VEP main track everything works fine, if I put BUS track before it I have this issue.

Look at the thread to better understand what I mean.

@DANIELE-ES said:

I routed MIDI from single tracks to VEP track, then I routed audio from VEP to single tracks using feedback routing, in the end I routed the audio from single tracks to a bus track and if you'll do the same you will experience the same issue.

Okay, I did the same set up:

• Individual instrument tracks routing MIDI to a track containing VEP instance.
• VEP track routing audio back to individual instrument tracks.
• Individual instrument tracks routing that audio to different BUS tracks, depending on instrument group.
• Only the BUS tracks routing to master, every other track has "Master send" disabled.

Worked perfectly, no problems.  However, taking a look at your post on the Reaper forum, I think I see what's going wrong: you're using the Event Input plugin!  That plugin is buggy as f*ck and isn't necessary for work with VEP7 in REAPER at all to achieve what you want.  Try setting up the routing without that plug-in and, crossing fingers, it should work!

Here's a screenshot of the set-up for what I detailed above:

Routing Set-up

I hope that helps!

- Sam

@DANIELE-ES said:

I routed MIDI from single tracks to VEP track, then I routed audio from VEP to single tracks using feedback routing, in the end I routed the audio from single tracks to a bus track and if you'll do the same you will experience the same issue.

Okay, I did the same set up:

• Individual instrument tracks routing MIDI to a track containing VEP instance.
• VEP track routing audio back to individual instrument tracks.
• Individual instrument tracks routing that audio to different BUS tracks, depending on instrument group.
• Only the BUS tracks routing to master, every other track has "Master send" disabled.

Worked perfectly, no problems.  However, taking a look at your post on the Reaper forum, I think I see what's going wrong: you're using the Event Input plugin!  That plugin is buggy as f*ck and isn't necessary for work with VEP7 in REAPER at all to achieve what you want.  Try setting up the routing without that plug-in and, crossing fingers, it should work!

Here's a screenshot of the set-up for what I detailed above:

Routing Set-up

I hope that helps!

- Sam

In this test I'm not using Event Input Plugin, only midi routing.

Take tracks 8 and 9 in your setup and put them at position 1 and 2. If I put my BUS track as last track it works, put them before VEP plugin track and you will see magic happens.

@DANIELE-ES said:

Take tracks 8 and 9 in your setup and put them at position 1 and 2. If I put my BUS track as last track it works, put them before VEP plugin track and you will see magic happens.

Aha.  Now the magic is happening.

I played around with it some, and got some interesting results:

• If the instrument tracks were routed via sends to the instrument bus track, then the bus track would not work if it was placed above/before the VEP track.
• However, if the instrument tracks were children and the bus track was a folder instead, all of them except the first track in the folder would work, even if the folder was placed before/above the VEP instance.

....?????....

Have you reported this bug to the REAPER devs?

Even with this strange behavior, it seems to me your problem working with VEP7 is solved!  Just put all the VEP instance tracks at the top of your project and hide them if they're cluttering up your workflow.  😊

I'm glad you brought this to everyone's attention; now I know to put my VEP tracks at the top to avoid this strange behavior.

- Sam

@DANIELE-ES said:

Take tracks 8 and 9 in your setup and put them at position 1 and 2. If I put my BUS track as last track it works, put them before VEP plugin track and you will see magic happens.

Aha.  Now the magic is happening.

I played around with it some, and got some interesting results:

• If the instrument tracks were routed via sends to the instrument bus track, then the bus track would not work if it was placed above/before the VEP track.
• However, if the instrument tracks were children and the bus track was a folder instead, all of them except the first track in the folder would work, even if the folder was placed before/above the VEP instance.

....?????....

Have you reported this bug to the REAPER devs?

Even with this strange behavior, it seems to me your problem working with VEP7 is solved!  Just put all the VEP instance tracks at the top of your project and hide them if they're cluttering up your workflow.  😊

I'm glad you brought this to everyone's attention; now I know to put my VEP tracks at the top to avoid this strange behavior.

- Sam

Lastly I'm spending more time solving problems and finding bugs than composing music. 😄

The developers know about the issue, you could see one of them answering in the thread I linked here. I think they'll manage to solve it in the next updates.

I didn't play with folders but the bug is real so I think it is enough for now, I'll wait to see what they do.

Yeah it is solved but I have to rethink my template and actually I think I'll wait for this to be solved.

Ehi Sam, one of the Devs helped me to find a simple solution until the fix this. They could do it for Reaper V6, so in the mean time without moving any track it is enough to send from the main plugin track to the bus track, you could send nothing by putting audio and midi to "none". This little trick does the job.

I tried yesterday.

I'd like to ask you a question, do you have bad performances using feedback routing?

Because in general devs say that using it could result in heavier cpu load.

@Seventh Sam said:

So by sending nothing, you end up sending everything? Lol what a strange fix, but hey, if it works 😊 I stress tested using feedback routing on my single machine setup using 40 vipro instances all running through mir, several CPU hungry guitar vsts double tracked to separate amp sims, 5 instances of massive on ultra settings, 20 kontakt instruments (mainly chris hein horns, session horns pro and discovery series) and the garritan cfx on full settings playing something like 50 notes at a time with the sustain pedal. All of them were routed (in vipro) to illusion, a fusion ir that takes a fair amount of CPU. I loaded each midi track with as many notes and keyswitches as I could fit in. On a single machine, 4.5ghz quad core processor, at 128 buffer I got a few clicks here and there but nothing ultra distracting. At 512 buffer the clicks disappeared completely. I should also mention I have a very entry level audio interface. I don't know how this compares to your template and hardware, but I hope it helps. VEP is just amazing, even on a single machine setup. EDIT: It also occurs to me that if feedback routing does indeed increase CPU load, then the very thing it enables you to do - freeze individual tracks - can be done to decrease CPU load! Win win :)

It is not a fix, it is a trick to use while we are waiting for a real fix, but I think that doing an empty routing it shouldn't cost so much to apply.

I have an 8 core CPU (16 threads) with 64 GB of ram so this sounds great. I use a lot of automations so I'm keeping buffer size at 512 and I was starting to have some UI lags with big projects, this is why I'm trying to move the CPU load from Reaper to VEP.

Well, it seems that it works great, so I think I shouldn't have performance problems using feedback routing with my configuration. I don't like to freeze tracks because while I'm composing I keep editing tracks many times so for me it would be a continuous freeze/unfreeze process.

Yeah, with 8 core you should be sailing.  Both REAPER and VEP are good multi-threaders.  Then again, I have no idea how big your projects are, what your OS is and how it's optimized, etc.  So, no way to tell for sure unless you test yourself I guess...

That said, feedback routing increases CPU load in REAPER, yes, but the great thing about VEP is that it's offloading the CPU load of the actual sample processing from REAPER to VEP.  Whatever CPU hit REAPER is taking from feedback routing is going to be a drop in the bucket compared to what it would be if you were doing everything in REAPER.

I did a stress test before I knew about feedback routing as well.  It wasn't exactly the same set up, but it was very close.  I noticed the exact same behavior - a few clicks at 128, and nothing at 512.  In short, I don't think feedback routing changed much of anything, or even at all.