VSL is definitely the best sample producer in existence, but I have to say Jimmy Hellfire's post was very accurate, thoughtful and really well-written, not at all hostile.  I would call it constructive criticism as it is very detailed and shows a lot of knowledge as well as really good ears concerning problems.  I think maybe the problems can be put down to Synchron Strings being a new direction and somewhat "Experimental" perhaps (?)  One striking thing which Jimmy mentioned was the many velocity layers - I also heard no difference from the previous string libraries created by this increase in layers and was surprised by that.  Also I noticed the Player is oddly similar to the CSS player though not as easy to use.   But I don't mean to be dismissive as it is obviously a very seriously created library with a lot of potential which Beat Kaufmann ( a guy who is now pissed off at me totally due to my critique of his Sousa demo) and Steven Limbaugh and Guy Bacos showed.  (Those are the ones I heard that I thought were really great - probably others as well...) I think people should not be alarmed as VSL has a great history of being very fair to customers and will certainly be fixing problems.

William I consent it is a great relief, if the annoying sound of hostility could be left behind.

I nevertheless do not consent his long posting, without giving the anmswer he expects to get from me.

It might be, that the kind of default settings chosen. But thoses Settings are not more than a starting point. To get what  you want, you should use not the default settings, buit the options. They are the product and its power.

Has Jimmy for instance worked seriously on the EQ-Settings in the Mikrophone Mixer to get the sound he was looking for before criticising the current sound?

Yes the structure of the Articulation-Patches are completly different than they have been in VSL or more orl less any other Library. Many things for which I previously was forced to search different patches for i can now get what I need, either with the available variations or CC Programming.

Each single Patch is simply much deeper usable in different contexts, than the patches have been before, which have been good for one occasion but make you go to search for the most appropriate patch for the next occasion. To keep now all reasonable Variants available in the context of a certain type of articulation finally makes a very differentiated Workflow much more efficient.

However, since we currently just know Vol.1 I expect, that further Volumes will in any way improve whatr is already there. so how ever more or less well tempered we discuss here things will always become better.

I think that is a good point and had a similar feeling about it being capable of a lot of development depending on how much you work with it, so I think you're right there also. 

- Also, I should have added your work with it has been very impressive as well.

@Pixelpoet1985 said:

- The competition has introduced way more advanced features and new innovative approaches over the years.

- Synchron Strings still follows the same patch structure as in the older libraries, disappointing for me.

- they have to face the truth.

- And, for me, VI Pro is far superior than Synchron Player, it has used to be and is still the best sample player on the market.

Even as a beginner I can make statements. I'm not an idiot! I'm still learning, but I'm able to compare sample libraries. And there are several other users which are disappointed by Synchron Strings, too. 

You have your opinion, and I have mine. The old(er) VSL libraries are several years old. The competition doesn't sleep, they have indeed innovations and new approaches. I can't name them all, I'm still noticing it. When I'm saying that Synchron Strings has the same patch structure I mean e. g. regular legato - fast legato - slur legato. These patches are in the older libraries, too. I expected something new when Synchron Strings was announced, maybe some all-in-one legato patch with adaptive legato like in e. g. Berlin Strings or CineStrings. I don't own these libraries, but I'm watching videos and reading reviews.

There are indeed some “improvements” in Synchron Strings. Repetition samples are now integrated into the legato patches. That's useful. But I don't want to call them “innnovations”. Dimension Strings was kind innovative, but what next? Do you own a string library other than from VSL? Maybe you don't know what innovations I mean. It's just a question, please stop making me the bad guy here over and over again. It's just my opinion, I have a right to say what I think, even if it's harsh or severe sometimes. I love VSL and I own many products, but their recent behaviour with Synchron Strings and Synchron-ized Chamber Strings is a bit weird. 

“They have to face the truth.” Maybe it was a bit unclear. I meant that when they don't take our feedback seriously, than they will loose (potentials) customers. And I can't imagine that Synchron Strings sold well, neither Synchron-ized Chamber Strings. I don't know, for sure, but I'm guessing from what I'm hearing from others. The majority of users seems disappointed and unhappy.

Concerning Synchron Player ... I mean, VI Pro is superior at the moment. There are two of my favourite features which are missing in Synchron Player: 1) Humanize, and, 2) Auto-Voicing. I also find the general workflow much easier with VI Pro, but maybe because I'm used to it. Apart from handling multiple microphones there is no real benefit for me.

I agree with a lot of what you are saying, but VSL does actually read these posts very seriously - I know that for a fact.  (Don't ask why!!!😎)  I also am a huge fan of VI/VE/MIR and in complete and religious awe of Dimension Strings 😇which I think is the greatest technological accomplishment ever done in music history.  (Is that overstating it? Hmm.... no.)

But Synchron promises to be very good also and is still being perfected, so I think people should not panic about it and think they wasted money.  Definitely not a waste with all the carefully detailed samples that have been recorded, and the player is still being perfected and VSL will not leave anyone out to dry, I know that from past experience.

@William said:

But Synchron promises to be very good also and is still being perfected, so I think people should not panic about it and think they wasted money.  Definitely not a waste with all the carefully detailed samples that have been recorded, and the player is still being perfected and VSL will not leave anyone out to dry, I know that from past experience.

👍

.

OMG You realy dont realise all your mistakes?

@Another User said:

"Concerning Synchron Player ... I mean, VI Pro is superior at the moment".

Of course it is not at all. You obviously just did not yet understood the realy groundbreaking innovation of the Samplestructure, which means defenitly not the fact, of different Legato types. Synchron-Player is not only Multidimensional (up to 8 Dimensions which could be either selected or crossfaded) while the Matrix of the VI is 2 Dimensional and a very limited option to crossfade patches. this allows for Synchronplayer to organize the Patches in a way more effective Strucvture to have always every variant already at your fingertip, which you have had to search and organize in the limited VI Matrix pretty more tediously than it is now already done for you. If you ever had worked more intensive with it, you would know this shortcoming of VI.

There is nothing wrong with being a begionner And I do not expect, that you as a beginner must understand all at the first and obviously very superficial glance  but I would expect, that you as a beginner, keep your mind, open enough for the fact that there might be much more and much more really important and musical reasonable under the hood than you obviously are ready tio understand. Therefore I still ask you to study the new Options before complaining., this would make yopur opinion much more convincing.

You aks me if I do have other Libraries? Better ask me which I dont have. Did you realy believe that I dont know what I am talking about. That is really 'a bit' couragous.  While I do not talk about what ever 'boy' you might be. I am only interested to correct the mistakes you state again and again. And "face your" often as uninformed as harsh judgements with the "truth" of the mistakes on which they are obviously in several aspects build on.

Feedback?`OK as a beginner you might not know. But longterm VSL-User know, that they are aware what is discussed here and try to include every reasonable request. But thats true, they do not talk about before they managed to realised a solution. They just kind prefer doing over posting. But again no need for a Beginner playing the one who preaches a truth he himself obcviously is so little familiar with.

fahl5, I must say, you come off as very arrogant throughout this thread, blaming people for lack of skill, not grasping/understanding Synchron Strings etc.

Yes, VSL has always had extremely good software! I use Ensemble Pro all day long. It's an amazing piece of software! The new Synchron player is also rather nice - and certainly was necessary for a product as complicated, structure-wise, as Synchron Strings.

But but... it's the results and the sound that counts. And as countless have already pointed out, Synchron Strings is off. Very off. It sounds lifeless and thin, generally speaking. There are good aspects of it; I like the clarity of it, but sadly when the tone is thin and lifeless it doesn't help much.

And then you go mocking other libraries, because they use Kontakt + scripting. YES they do, and it creates far better results than the legato of Synchron Strings. So who gives a f*ck how it works, as long as it works better?

You really seem to have lost focus here, trying to defend VSL based on former merits, "groundbreaking innovation of the Samplestructure" and all kinds of other nonsense that really don't amount to anything if you don't get any musicality into the samples.

Oh, and by all means, if you want to convince me of the brilliance of SyS, feel free to post any music you have done with it.

EDIT: Oh I found a mockup of yours, "Donna Diana Ouverture". You have it right there: The lifeless-ness of the strings. And a very nasal tone too, that I think EQ could help on but let it rest... This certainly doesn't showcase how brilliant SyS is. I don't know your skills towards mocking up orchestral music, so I can't tell if you could do better with other libraries but I certainly know libraries that sound much better, and that this mockup could be much better.

@Another User said:

...feel free to post any music you have done with it.

Wow !!!

....you are obviously very attentive reading this forum. Without being "arrogant" I perhaps must remind you, that with nearly 20 recordings with altogether nearly 1 1/2 Hours duration of most ambitious often brilliant Music done nearly exclusivly with Synchron Strings and posted exactly in this Forum here I have provided more than anyone else here occasion enough for you to listen which "results" I have realised with my very first attempts to get familiar with. Meanwhile they are of course nothing more or less than Execises several of them already found their applaus not only from other VSL-Users but also other professional musicians just listend for the music and had fun with it.

But if there are so wonderful other Libraries I would be very interested to hear any results how it would sound like to do any of the pieces I realised with that alledged so much better Library. I personally cant imagine at all which Library that should be. (But please do not pretend anything without concrete audible "result"!😉)

But of course as you do not accept that other user will need their time to become familiar with the new Software, I know you will not accept, that those are nothing more or less than my first Experiments to develop my usage of the library of course done exactly fopr for having, reflecting and trying succesivly to solve potential problems which of course occurs when starting working with that much of new Samples and Options to controle them.

However call it arrongant or what ever I am defenitly not at all "convinced" from those who expect "results" before and without any serious attemtp to learn the new product step by step. If you dont want to produce the music yourself go for an mp3-Player and download as much "results" as you like A Samplelibrary is still something a bit different than any kind of Jukebox it is an instrument. I dont know any Instruments which must not be learned before getting exactly those Results you want to get.

To make it short what you call "arrogant" is that I do not care for what other complain as "results" they expoect to be already provided by those who produced the Sample library, I am just interested, to figure out what I can do with the new options and I do take obvioously just a bit more time to do so looking not for resaons to complain but for way to use what is there. Does that really deserve to be called "arrogant"? If so I am proud of it😃

@Simon Ravn said:

fahl5, I must say, you come off as very arrogant throughout this thread.

Fahl5: "Ok I thought this thread is aimed to improve Synchron Library, do we end up to improve ,members instead??"

Fahl5, 2 totally unrelated things. One can easily express himself without sounding arrogant. 

@Veola said:

I just cannot understand how people can say there is nothing wrong with this lib? Don't you compare to other libs or listen to recordings? Don't you want something new, improved or groundbreaking from a new lib?

+1

@Veola said:

I just cannot understand how people can say there is nothing wrong with this lib? Don't you compare to other libs or listen to recordings? Don't you want something new, improved or groundbreaking from a new lib?

@fahl5, I know that people can get lost in the programming and forget to use their ears and emotions to judge the whole piece. No offence, but you seem a bit like this, pushing as a many pieces through as possible.

Guy Bacos got some demos on the product page, BUT the ones that sound acceptable are the ones layered with other instruments. Its basically covering up the problems of the lib.

The Bee  (Not layered)

Hey Guy!  Did someone swat that bee at the end?

Wow! That is such a great little piece, really a wonderful composition.  And it sounds so perfect - there is no audible difference between this and live.  It is such fun to listen to your brilliant music.   

@William said:

Hey Guy!  Did someone swat that bee at the end?

Yeah but didn't work, his friends got worried and other members of the colony came looking for him in my house.

@Simon Ravn said:

fahl5, I must say, you come off as very arrogant throughout this thread, blaming people for lack of skill, not grasping/understanding Synchron Strings etc.

Yes, VSL has always had extremely good software! I use Ensemble Pro all day long. It's an amazing piece of software! The new Synchron player is also rather nice - and certainly was necessary for a product as complicated, structure-wise, as Synchron Strings.

But but... it's the results and the sound that counts. And as countless have already pointed out, Synchron Strings is off. Very off. It sounds lifeless and thin, generally speaking. There are good aspects of it; I like the clarity of it, but sadly when the tone is thin and lifeless it doesn't help much.

And then you go mocking other libraries, because they use Kontakt + scripting. YES they do, and it creates far better results than the legato of Synchron Strings. So who gives a f*ck how it works, as long as it works better?

You really seem to have lost focus here, trying to defend VSL based on former merits, "groundbreaking innovation of the Samplestructure" and all kinds of other nonsense that really don't amount to anything if you don't get any musicality into the samples.

Oh, and by all means, if you want to convince me of the brilliance of SyS, feel free to post any music you have done with it.

 

EDIT: Oh I found a mockup of yours, "Donna Diana Ouverture". You have it right there: The lifeless-ness of the strings. And a very nasal tone too, that I think EQ could help on but let it rest... This certainly doesn't showcase how brilliant SyS is. I don't know your skills towards mocking up orchestral music, so I can't tell if you could do better with other libraries but I certainly know libraries that sound much better, and that this mockup could be much better.

+1 

@Simon Ravn said:

fahl5, I must say, you come off as very arrogant throughout this thread.

Fahl5, 2 totally unrelated things. One can easily express himself without sounding arrogant. 

+1 (+1,000,000 who if they read this thread would also add their +1)

At this point, I rarely post.  I am more of a church composer/hobby user, not a "high end" user.  My budget for samples is very, very limited.  Up to now I have lived in the land of VSL.  What is currently going on concerns me.  On the one hand, there is that massive negative/hostile thread against SyS on "that other forum."  Here, there appears to be - at times - an almost equally hostile thread in favor of it.  To someone who has to spend money on samples with great care, neither thread is helpful.

At one time I was a participant in the Sonar community.  As things spiraled downward, negative reactions towards any criticism increased significantly.  Fahl5 may prove to be right, I don't know.  What I do know is that when companies fail to take justified complaints (note the use of "justified") seriously, those companies tend to suffer financially, as the market reacts.  To me, there is no other company out there that has been able to do what VSL has done.

But so far SyS seems more of a "miss" than a "hit."  That is not a direct conern.  No company is perfect.  The issue is how VSL will handle the criticism/concerns.  Following the "Cakewalk/Sonar" model in that regard would not be wise.  There are solid reasons to hope that SyS will reach VSL standards, given VSL's track record.  As for now, if I were to purchase another VSL string library, it would likely be AP strings.  SyS seems to much of a question mark at this point.