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  • Robert Fuchs (1847-1927) Serenade op.9 D-Major (SyStr+syniced-ChStr)

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    Ok I confess I hesitated to share here once again my attempts to explore the new Synchron-Strings, since I realy do not like the often personal, scarcly subject based, polemic and disrespectful way some of the Members here prefer to comunicate. That said I know they will again presumably continue to complain, the Work the VSL has invested in this as innovative as ambitious Sample-library-Series which is still in its very beginning as they will do with my efforts to use is musical reasonably.

    However, I still do like the Library, there imho many aspects which allows very much more realism than previous libraries, but the great and manifold options to controle and select Patches does make it a challenge for the user, to do his best to make use of it. Imho some of the examples discussed here seem to me not that suitable to discuss the library and its strength as far I personally fear the user has not even attemted seriously enough to achieve the most reasonable results the library is able to.

    As I already said before I believe as every good instrument, one should take its time to come familiar with it. Thats all I am trying to do. Here is my next result.

    Robert Fuchs (1847-1927) is nowaday no longer a composer that one would call an "unsung" composer. You can find in Youtube for nearly all his composition played by several good ensembles and interprets. Nevertheless he belong perhaps not to those composers really everybody knows by heart. Most who have heard something about him know that he was the teacher of (among others) many of the most important early 20th century music composers like Erich Wolfgang Korngold, Gustav Mahler, Erkki Melartin, Franz Schmidt, Franz Schreker, Jean Sibelius, Robert Stolz, Richard Strauss, Hugo Wolf, Alexander von Zemlinsky. While he himself was know for his pretty unobtrusive but always very inspired music, what might be somehow hard to combine with the overwhelming powerfull music of most of his wellknown pupils. But that might also be a matter of personal character. As far as I have had the chance during my own musical studies to made the acquaintance of some of his (familiar) descendants - which are still as unobtrusive as wonderful musicians - this seem for me art least very probable to be the case.

    His first Serenade op.9 written in the age of 27 years was received by the contemporary press nearlky enthousiastic giving nearly the very charming complete opposite of what for instance Wagner at the same time presents most overwhelming in the Bayreuth Festspielhaus. The music is not only obviously deeply routed in the Folkmusic-traditions of his styrian homeland, but in the same time so full of well formed details and deep sentiment, that I personally can imagine that not only regarding the wonderful deeply breathing IV.Movement (Adagio) G.Mahler could have been directly very inspired by this teacher and his music.

    The recording is made primarily with Synchronstrings, only in divisi-Passages supported by the new and wellcome Synchronized Chamberstrings. If you read many other threads here one might think I must be completly deaf or whatever, but I still do like Synchronstrings to be in many aspects a great improvement over what we already have had of good orchestral strings (not only from VSL) and I think that they (VSL) do with this Library and Serie the right step in the right direction and a pretty good step ahaed. And I personally feel and hope that I am getting more and more familiar with this complex library and his use, which imho really deservers it to spent the time to unlopck its potential.

    I hope that at least those who still are open minded enough would find something they are able to enjoy to listen. And yes I am ready for the fact, that there are presumably currently some here who will not.

    So perhaps give this music a try:

    Robert Fuchs Serenade D-Major op.9 (Synchron Strings + synchronized Chamberstrings)


  • Hi Steffen, I took the time to listen to the whole piece and I enjoyed it. I enjoyed the music, but I enjoyed also the sound of the orchestra. (I started listening to the old version, and there was an unbalance between the basses and the other instruments, or were it also the violoncelli (?), but after that I heared the new version, and there is the balance good). IMO you showed here that the Synchron Strings are a good library. Indeed we have to learn to use it in the right way, but that is with all libreries (to be honest: I heared from all the string libraries of VSL very good examples and also musicfrom which it is very clear that it is sampled). Congratulations!

  • Wow, that sounds great, one of the best Synchron string performances.  I thought the first violins are too bright, though that is debatable.  This has really great use of all the different articulations, and sounds very expressive and natural.

    Is this also done with the "old" libraries?  I wish one could hear this exact same piece played by "old" Chamber/Dimension/Solo strings.  Then have a "shoot-out" between the new library and the old.  That would be fun to compare.  But it would probably be far too much work to do.  


  • Hi fahl5

    These tracks sound great, very natural sounding strings  !   

    Very nicely done. 

    With regards to Synchron Strings I , which mics are you using in these demos ? and which Reverb are you using to add the ambience to the strings ? 

    Thanks for sharing. 


  • Hi guys, no offence but what do you like about the sound (not your programming, Steffen? The too bright violins? The missing mids? 

    The Synchron Strings have potential but at the moment they are lagging behind in respect to Orchestral and Dimenson String. Those sound much more organic. Don't you think?


  • That was quite well done, and an excellent demonstration of the library. Thanks for posting it!


  • Very nice! And I totally agree: this is a very rich resource and really to use it well takes some work. I am also doing my first Synchron Strings projects, and they sound fairly good. And I am not ready to give definitive opinions about it without a LOT more work!


  • Let me first thank you all for all the friendly reactions.

    Hi MMKA
    yes I do have some problems wis the D1 of the Synchron Strings, since it does resonate somehow so strong that I always have to level down the Bass, when ever he plays that tone. (That was indeed the difference between the first and second corrected Version.

    Hi William
    No no "old libraries" included. Only the synchronized Chamberstrings in a few divisi-Passages. While some discussions here tease me a bit to demonstrate with a comparison, how far some judgements are founded or only more or less assumed.
    But however I decided to keep on exploring the Synchron Strings which is much more interesting for me. I once programmed a comparison of String-quartets. But this is indeed much work and for all Producers which did not produced the best a bit frustrating.

    Hi muzisculp
    In order to keep everything (Sy-Str + synchroniced-Ch.Str.) compatible I chose Presets that seemed to me combinabel that mean for all Synchon Strings the "Classic Surround to Stereo" and for all synchroniced Ch.Str. "Classic". You know that VSL add in their Presets some of the inbuild Synchron-Player Reverb. I just took as it was set in those Presets. Insofar most you hear are Synchron Strings you hear mostly Close, Mid, Back, Main, Main-C, High, High-Sur

    Hi Veola,
    "to bright", "missing mids" ? I would suggest the VSL of course hesitated to "pimp" up any real recording with increase mids with any EQ and this will many acoustic details necessary to associate what hear with whatr we are used to hear from a Violin-Section (!) nevertheless. I also think if you are a composer you know that the prior way to shape the acoustic balance is not EQ-ing but how you distribute the different String-voices if you want to achieve something more deep and warm or something more airy. It is for me a quality that this library is open for both and does not already restrict the musical usage on a certain clishee of how Samaplelibrary reviewer expect something "hollywoodian" should sound like or not. But this is of course just my personal view and taste. Nevertheless I believe you can have the colors you are looking for, if you are really looking for an know what a traditional orchestral composer would do to get a certain String-color. 

    Thank you richikey and belkina for your friendly and encouraging reactions.

    Please keep in mind that I fear if anything than foremost Robert Fuchs has the greates part in making you reacting that friendly on the music recorded here. It is his music and I just do like it as it is.


  • Hello fahl5,

    Thank You for the helpful feedback. 

    Cheers,

    Muziksculp 


  • Exactly, I don't want to EQ the piece! The lows are beautiful but the violins are too bright. Again, no offence but in your piece the violins are too dominant. Cutting through the piece like a piano, only in a bright, almost painful way. Just take the time to listen to Orchestral or dimensional strings. Much more balanced. BTW, I now have the impression the this lib is not intended for classical music. If you guys are happy I am fine. But I would bet some money that you won't convince a client to buy a piece made with this lib and only this lib. And if you do, please let me know. (Please don't comment that you are only using this lib for mockups. You can use Kontakt for this and don't need a 600euro lib)

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    @Veola said:

    Exactly, I don't want to EQ the piece! The lows are beautiful but the violins are too bright. Again, no offence but in your piece the violins are too dominant. Cutting through the piece like a piano, only in a bright, almost painful way. Just take the time to listen to Orchestral or dimensional strings. Much more balanced. BTW, I now have the impression the this lib is not intended for classical music. If you guys are happy I am fine. But I would bet some money that you won't convince a client to buy a piece made with this lib and only this lib. And if you do, please let me know. (Please don't comment that you are only using this lib for mockups. You can use Kontakt for this and don't need a 600euro lib)

    Oh Veola....

    .....you obviously really try it hard  - 😉 what ever it would be what you try with downwriting the Synchron strings in each single of all the 10 postings you have ever posted here in this Forum.

    "the violins are 'dominant'"  - Imho that is not that surprising for a traditional stringorchestra composition..

    "not intended for classical music" ???? "classical" Thanks God, that no one has done any 18th century "classical" music with it yet. Robert Fuchs for example is just about 100 Years to late for "classical" music and all other I have done with also have been music from the romantic 19th century..

    Or did you really mean "classical" in the sense of any orchestral music founded in european tradition, and since the Stringorchestra is based in excactly this tradition you would mean in short "not intended. for any orchestral music at all" Puh that would be really an extremly courageous argument. OK I next time better ask you what music a sample-library is "intended" for. I am sure you will say me what I am allowed to do.

    Kontakt-Libraries?!  defenitly not for me!

    But if that is really enough for you, no one keeps you to make your own expireinces with. Go for them, and than continue downwriting thoses Samplelibraries in their Forums, if that is what really interests you:


  • @fahl5 You see how Synthetic String I frustrates me. They promised us heaven on earth (they have never advertised so aggressively as for SS!). Legato re-invented! Really? Must be really inventive overlapping two notes,aa uhhh. Ok, let's clear this once and for all. Do you have the same piece in SS and dimension string? Can we listen to this. I suggest you to listen to other VSL string lib. There are so much more organic. (BTW, are you being paid by VSL? Just out of curiosity)

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    @Veola said:

    @fahl5  (BTW, are you being paid by VSL? Just out of curiosity)

    No they are paid by me😎

    No, parallel Version. Even with my pretty efficient streamliend Workflow it is alway tedious to do the same thing twice. I have done that to test different Stringsquartetlibraries once, but without any real benefit for me. The pieces I program currently are only done for the purpuse to get familiar with programming Syn.Str.

    I think I better avoid repeating arguments already often enough posted here. It is more interesting to work on further Projects instead.

    And honestly to be kind of a bit rude: Each Library has its downsides. And the more current Libraries answer problems previous Libraries have had. If you want to judge the Progress compare the Cube Orchestral Strings with Synchron.

    I dont think there would be any project where I would in general prefer using the Orchestral Strings. But since I keep always each VSL-Library loaded I am of course still always ready to chose the most apöpropriate patch for a certain passage while currently I do not see much reason for.

    The Dimensionstrings are something completly different. They always have been especially great for many occasions already not covered by the Orchestral Strings of the Cube. And of course I will continue to use them in this way. I think you can see this if you consider which kind of music I have chosen for my Syn.Str.Tests (this is just a limited certain stylistic fraction of what I usually do with VSL-and ofther Sample-.Libraries. Just the Music which demands full develped orchestral Stringsections.

    @sound:

    Again I recommend you to take a look on the EQ-Settings in the Synchronplayer-Mixer. They seem to me programmed to emphazise very much the brilliant Overtonespectrum. This is obviously not what the original sample sounds like.

    @Legato:

    OK to be honest VSL has invented the Legato. They did not fall back their own invention. But one should learn to use it in the way you are looking for.

    @frustration.

    I know it seems to be kind of arrogant, but I think there is kind of a different attitude. Being either more the consumer type (the one who blame the stationery shop, that his pencil does not paint the Mona Lisa by it self) or the explorer-nerd-typ just curious to explore each new possibility learning thus what might work best in which occasion. And believe me, the Synchron Player is that much packed with resaonable options, that it needs its time to get the best out of it. Yes perhaps frustrating for those who are used to start the CD-Player to listen tro music. How ever I have my fun. Hey there are even with Synchron-Strings from time to time people who like what I do😃. No need to be frustrated even if there are also some who dont 😢 as you seem to be. Excuse me I fear that was pretty ugly and selfish again for me, stating to have fun while others suffer so hard. But the only way I can help any one is sharing the results I can get.


  • Absoluately, we may want to use this lib for different purposes. But I am asking myself why VSL released a lib that can't compete with others, for example Berlin Strings. Its pointless.

    Let me elaborate on the Mona Lisa example. VSL promissed a set of different brushes, different colour so we COULD attemp to draw the Mona Lisa. What did they deliver? Some brushes are missing and some colour are wrong. Not even Da Vinci could paint the Mona Lisa again!!! That's the point!!!

    That's why I am so upset, because the lib has potential but they screwed up and covered it up. VSL, you need to stand by it and improve!


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    @Veola said:

    Absoluately, we may want to use this lib for different purposes. But I am asking myself why VSL released a lib that can't compete with others, for example Berlin Strings. Its pointless.

    Let me elaborate on the Mona Lisa example. VSL promissed a set of different brushes, different colour so we COULD attemp to draw the Mona Lisa. What did they deliver? Some brushes are missing and some colour are wrong. Not even Da Vinci could paint the Mona Lisa again!!! That's the point!!!

    That's why I am so upset, because the lib has potential but they screwed up and covered it up. VSL, you need to stand by it and improve!

    Berlin Strings ??? OMG. In no way. I fear they even cant compete with the Synchronized Chamberstrings with their small section size and bunch of more or less cheap scripted Tricks. Imho, the Berlin's is an attempt that even scarcly reach what the Cube already delivered 10 Years ago. I fear if ever Leonardo would be frustrated than if he would be forced to work with limited tools like that. 

    Funny kind of conversation! OK lets continueto struggle about the most entertaining fomulated "opinion".😃

    (@veola: BTW Are you being payed by Orchestraltools? ...must be a hard Job😛)