@Beat Kaufmann said:

There are always people who complain about technical possibilities of libraries that are not available or not are possible. This includes the topic Divisi. Sure, in a real orchestra, a register splits when two voices are to be played. But that does not have to be mandatory if you play the same section with samples. Solution: Play both parts twice with the same violins and that's it. As soon as the mix has more instruments, you hardly hear that anymore. BUT...

Hi Beat,

Thank you so much for your sharing and detailed explanation. I really appreciate.

If I use the output of the sample libraries as my final product, I would totally agree with you. There are certainly many workarounds to overcome the limitations, and as musicians/compsoer, we should work with those limits.

Maybe a little bit of my background would help: I compose as a hobbyist and work with VSL libraries mainly through Sibelius. For me, the main purpose of using the libraries is to build mock-up to test and confirm my ideas. For example, on the options I could distribute and balance the splitting of a single pitch to hexachords/octachords across the strings section? Sure, I can approximate and guess, but that will defeat the purpose of making realistic mock-ups.

In fact, for my purpose, the approach of the Dimension series is/was perfect! I was soooo excited when it was released back in 2012 (6 years ago!!), and Andi (VSL) did such a great job, created the sound sets for Sibelius. Not only auto-divisi is supported by VI, but also the playback is right within Sibelius. Users do not even need to create their own sound sets (like they need to do for many other non-VSL libraries).

But unfortunately, development has been on hiatus forever. The current Dimension Strings library, for instance, does not even cover sul pont and sul tasto. I understand it takes tons of work to sample additional articulations per string per player!! Yet, if that was the approach VSL adopted, they should bring the libraries to "completion", up to a certain level.

When the Synchron Strings was claimed to be "Strings re-invented", I naturally redirect my expectations to the Synchron, hoping that I could enjoy the same divisi feature right within Siblieus. Now, divisi is not supported, what will users like me do in Sibelius? Probably we will keep using Dimension Strings instead.

I like the Synchron CFX a lot, and I like what I hear with the Synchron FX demos, but Synchron Strings... People have been discussing the legatos are steps backward. To me, the workflow is even a bigger issue.

Now, I just wish there will be more supporters for the Dimension series to keep its development rolling.

All the best!

I'm inundated with work and experiments at the moment, but I would LOVE to hear someone take the time to take the 2nd violins and experiment with the panning and microphone mix to render a convincing divisi.

Similar to the Synchron CFX, I imagine that you can recreate a different orchestra set up (ex, 1sts and 2nds at 9pm and 3pm) by messing with the panning in the Synchron Player.  Then, you automate the mic mix to get a more "detailed" close/softer sound.

Maybe Paul can inform us if this is a viable solution, or if not, then someone can spend a couple hours with some Ravel or Mahler and get creative. 👍

Yes, I would also love to experiment once the player is released.

Hi, 

You will have  a lot of options there. 

Best, 
Paul

@mobileavatar said:

Hi Beat,

Thank you so much for your sharing and detailed explanation. I really appreciate.

If I use the output of the sample libraries as my final product, I would totally agree with you. There are certainly many workarounds to overcome the limitations, and as musicians/compsoer, we should work with those limits.

Maybe a little bit of my background....

Hello
Thank you for the extensive publishing of your background.
I see that the technical side may be more important, just like trying to make music that sounds as real as possible.
But even if you are a composer ... My music examples should show that 2-voiced instruments do not sound much different than if they were split on Divisi. The Vienna Instrument Pro can play all articulations in multiple voices, even legato articulations. No problem to compose more than one note at a time ...

Take it easy - in the end, the music counts.
Nobody but you knows where the technology was not quite in line with reality ...
By the way: If you want to make a further step forward in terms of reality, then split the two sides:

• "Sibelius for the score"
• DAWx for the perfect sound.

Best regards
Beat

Just to summarize the Subject in my view:

- The Synchron is obviously set up to replace in long term the current VI-products.

- The Synchron Series has just started o be released.

- When the Cube was released we also haven't even had 2nd Violins later we got the Chamberstrings which at that tiime was also understood as part of the answer how to realise smaler Stringssection within the Orchestra for instance for any kind of divisi.

- Synchron Series has already 2nd Violins. But I would not at all be surprised if sooner or later we might also get kind of Synchron Chamber and Solostrings as we have got for the Cube. And at least at that point most of the complaints about "divisi" will probably stop even if I do have ssome doubts if there ever might be something like a Synchron-Dimension Series which reaches  the same level of possible individualisation of the Dimension-Series in the Synchron-acoustic.

So just keep in mind the Synchrroon Series is just beginning and we still have the Dimension series and are able to combine both.

There is no "auto divisi" in VI.

It doesn't distribute the players to the number of voices played.

I still disagree with "replacement" and I'm sure that the SY-String concept is different fro VI ... and that we will see this even more obvious soon ...

BUT I thought after the FX-release it was pretty clear where the journey goes?!?

Amen, I'm telling you ...

SY STRINGS 1

1. Synchron Strings I
2. Synchron FX Strings I
3. Synchron Divisi Strings I ... not for all Sections (I think f.ex. Basses will be kept out) but for quite some

SY STRINGS 2

from here starting with Consordino - concept

At Westlake Pro Stefan Steinbauer spoke about customers costs at Synchron Stage ... 10 K € for 3 hours Strings-play as far as I remember.
These customers and VSL are of course both highly interested to make the SY-Strings as complete as possible ... as soon as possible.

(And I like it. I hope that VSL keeps continuing with Strings)

@Paul said:

No auto-divisi in Synchron Player at this point. 

Best, 
Paul

Hi LAJ,

I wish what you predicted is true, but from Paul's earlier tone, I am not sure even the divisi feature is in the road map at this point.

@TFIS said:

There is no "auto divisi" in VI.

It doesn't distribute the players to the number of voices played.

(Ok excuse me if I do answer perhaps a bit arrogant)

- If a "competitor" sell "2part divisi" it cant be more than to have the ability to use two smaller sections instead of a large one. And that will not make you able to play chords and all Voices will have the amount of Stringplayers this Chord would allow played by one Section. But if you are looking for more try Kirk Hunter as far as I know he has wonderful "scripted Divisi" 🎉. (OK lets stay serious😊

Sorry but in general a stringsection is not divided for someone who is used to play some chords on his midikeyboard but in most cases not more than in two smaller parts of the section. I personally would  not need any "Auto"-Function to program that at all. Imho this "Auto-divisi" seems to be more or less kind of a buzz-word with not that real musical relevance.

In Short: 

Smaller sections for Divisi ? I think that seem to me quite probable sooner or later, 

"Autodivisi" ? who really needs that in real music??

@LAJ said:

3. Synchron Divisi Strings I ... not for all Sections (I think f.ex. Basses will be kept out) but for quite some ...

This is part of the plan! Even if VSL say no. 
(They want to record a "modern orchestra" and modern orchestras play divisi.)

BTW take a look at the Violas of FX ... they are already devided!

Hi Beat,

Thanks again for the great sharing and insight!

@Another User said:

• Sibelius for the score
• DAW for the perfect sound

Yes, that's an excellent suggestion but that is exactly where I have problem to position the Synchron Strings library:

- for Sibelius, at least for Strings I, it does not have enough articulations to cover the needs for contemporary music composition.

- for DAW, the sound (at least in its current state) is far from being perfect.

Best,

mobileavatar

@LAJ said:

This is part of the plan! Even if VSL say no. 

Hi LAJ, I really appreciate your optimism!

Prompted by those subgroup close-mics I saw in the walk-thru video, I also thought auto-divisi is possible. That was the reason I started this thread.

@TFIS said:

I know that function. Still no auto divsi. 😊

From p. 9 of the VSL catalog 2016:"...with the optional Vienna Instruments Pro player you may easily create divisi sections with flexible groupings, and with the Polyphonic Legato and Auto Humanization features you’ll get the most out of these string ensembles, for absolutely striking results!"

and p. 8 of the very same catalog: "The auto-divisi mode splits voices, and the tailor-made Humanize Presets let you easily control the performance accuracy in real-time – from subtle tuning and timing variations to heavy cluster effects."

If you disagree with the definition, you should argue with VSL.

If Synchron Player will support even "divisi" at that level (as in VI Pro Player), I will be more than happy.