@William said:
Speaking of symphonists and getting old, I somewhat agree but also disagree. Because in getting old I am trying to figure out what is really valuable. As a result, though I appreciate great works that represent thought and form such as Beethoven's late quartets, I actually value Tchaikovsky of the 6th symphony more than ever, because it truly evokes powerful emotion within the symphonic form. And that is a valuable achievement in itself that will never lose its meaning. Also, the structure of the 2nd movement is the equal of any classicist, but almost no classicist could ever create anything as powerful as that march - not even Beethoven (at least most of the time though obviously in the 9th 2nd movement he did). Though Brahms is always a perfect example of the blending of feeling with structure. On the other hand, Mahler in the 6th symphony shows the ultimate fusion of form and feeling, but then evolves beyond that in the 9th symphony (and partial 10th) to create something unique, neither Classical nor Romantic. Though all this is probably a just another recurrence of the old debate between Classical and Romantic which can never be won - only argued about and indignantly defended. Almost as bad as PC vs. Mac!
You're probably right. It is a matter of opinion mostly. I just think one could find examples of great structure and beauty in melody, counterpoint and all. One example I'm thinking of is Barber's 1st symphony in one movement. It's a brilliant form with some killer melodies. Granted it's not the formal design of Mozart or Beethoven but great architecture nonetheless.
I do agree with most of what you say SunTower. I totally agree that counterpoint is sorely lacking in most composers' vocabulary today. I'm certainly guilty of this myself but endeavoring to correct it. It takes ALOT of work which is why I think most people don't try to write anything contrapuntal. Also I agree that what people hold up as models (namely movie music) is a poor example for writing concert music. At least in terms of form/design and development. It's not a knock on film music but its purpose is quite different than concert music. It's that simple. Now I do think some film composers have a brilliant craft and the orchestrators in hollywood are very good as well. But I always try to point people to the source of what these guys/gals are copying (for the most part) and study that rather than the 1-2 minute movie cue.
I enjoy debating these things though even if there is no resolution.because it makes me think and maybe consider something I hadn't before.