Hi Guy

Very interesting thread. Here is some more information about how Blaskapellen usually sounds mixwise...

I had to record 2 real "Blasmusik-Kapellen" this year. They wanted to have an audio-CD. When such a band is going to record a CD they want to sound how all the other Blaskapellen in the field. So for reaching this aim I boght some CDs of the most famous Blaskapellen and tried to find out how they are mixed in general and in the averrage. And yes, one can say that modern "Octoberfest-Kapellen" all are mixed the same way - more or less. Here are my observations:

• Tuba: often pumped up a bit, often with overdone high frequencies (flatter), either with a lot of reverb or totally dry. mostly mixed to the center.
• Drums: mostly dry played and often a very small set. Sometimes not very dominant. (Bass Drum mixed to the center position, snare, ride, crash etc. somewhere in the stereo field. The bass drum has a very tight and short sound.
• Trumpets: A bright sound, often very stereo (first and second trumpets L and R) often with a lot of reverb.
• Trombones: dito Trumpets
• Clarinettes/Saxophones: Bright sound as well with vibrato, often a lot of reverb as well (left or right)
• Accordeon: Stereo, stereo, stereo, bright, full sound, reverb...

About reverb: In general on can say reverb means tail but no room or depth... One can observe tail lengths from 1,5-5! seconds... Soloist is the one who plays forte all the others are playing p.

Also: The Blaskapellen-Music is often very compressed and loud mixed, so that all the instruments are sounding with the same volume. As I mentioned, these are the facts how the music style normally is mixed and people are used to listen to at the radio, on CD or where ever.

Of course I also tried to reach the sound with VSL as well

• Tuba: Mix between Tuba, BassTrombone and the solo Double Bass for having more Volume in the lows
• Trumpets 1 & 2: Mix between Trumpet Ensemble 3 + Trumpet in C
• Trombones 1& 2: TromboneEnsemble 3 + Single Tenortrombone
• Clarinettes: ClarinetteEnsemble 3
• Accordeon: Tarilonte Accordions (not VSL)
• Drums: Superior Drummer (not VSL)

BK-Polka (unfortunately not a composition of your "size". It only shall show the mixing matters)

Have fun and I hope it is a help for further Octoberfest-approaches.

Beat

Hi Guy, Beat,

Very interesting approach. Although I'm not into 'Blaskapellenmusik", I like it a lot (I'm a great folk music lover, because it's always so direct and honest).

What I'm specially interested in is the accordion. I've written a small accordion concerto a while ago, but it's so hard to find a decent sampled accordion. (For now I have the Best Service Gola accordion, the bayan by Efimov and the Efimov accordion). My concerto was designed for a bayan or convertible accordion, not for an ordinary discant-bass accordion. It's such a pity that VLS didn't come up with a good instrument, despite many requests. I would certainly welcome the Vienna quality!

Thanks for the advice and the recording,

Jos

Thanks Paul, it was different doing this one, the hardest part was to never go beyong I-IV-V.

Beat, interesting post, thanks for that. 

I seem to fail to express my intention here, just to reiterate what I had said earlier, at some point I decided to streer away from the typical Oktoberfest style, one reason was not having the accordeon, and I thought it might be more interesting to have a more movement in some parts which is closer to military lines and whatever other styles, but I thought is was fun, especially for a 6 min demo. So it's really just inspired from Oktoberfest. 

I just remebered your approach for a brassband inspired by Blaskapellen-Music:

Just listen the first piece of Alban Bergs Wozzek-Fragments beginning from ca. 1'50 there is a brilliant very ironic parody on blaskapellen-music perhaps it might inspire you for more attempts with virtual Blaskapellen. 😉

I’ve already made my point.

I do not glue to anything at all. It was just my fist spontaneous reaction, which I tried to make understanable. And

Yes I confess I do not like the Oktoberfest and the horrible cliché that this would have any meaning for what is german or even a german "Leitkultur" and this personal antipathy against drinking bouts may have limited my enthousiasm for inspiration from that side.

However Alban Berg reminded me to be not to rigid in this sense. So I just indicated that even I am able to consider way to be inspired from that side. However I would still prefer Bergs Wozzek Blaskapelle over any Terrorattack at the Oktoberfest, since Berg is definitly much more enjoyable. 

OK to be correct. Beside my spontanoues reaction on the music I was trying to explain, and my antipathy I thought given that you want just do what you want it might help you to consider, that when imitating any less complex kind of music very much of the effect is based on the recognition of the specific genre, And even if my personal relation to the oktoberfest is completly irrelevant for anyone (what is absolutly the case) it seem to me still helpful to consider the consistence of a certain style to be recognized. But even that was just my personal thought about.

But of course the music is absolutly ok when you feel it is, and I do have no problem with it.

I’ve already made my point.

"fahl5"  -  

You don't know what you are talking about - again.  It is offensive to hear you attempt to criticize Guy Bacos, who is a master composer and performer.  Can you you just be quiet and have some respect for once?  You are extremely offensive on this forum.  

Ok I am honest. But I have never written here any posting with any personal attac against any other participant which  was necessary to be deleted at all.

Could you say the same thing about your postings here William?

Who are you that you believe you are in the position to allow other to participate or not?

I’ve already made my point.

@Guy Bacos said:

Occasionally William can get passionate however, he always fixes his post. On the other hand Steff, you were very out of line on the other thread, some cheap shots, do you think that's any better? 

Did I understand you right, you justify as "passionate" in William frankly and directly insults my person without any concrete Reason at all, with harsh lies about alledged abuse of copyrights and fuoletterwording. And yuo seriously level this with my frinedly advice to be ready to get an answer, if you say something. 

The truth is the opposite William has not at all fixed anything in his last ost disgusting lapse against me. On the other hand the insulting pretention of any inadeaquate behavior of my side llacks any substance at all.

It is simply a shame that you are not able to see that fundamental difference. 👎

I’ve already made my point.

@Guy Bacos said:

Once more, trying to dimisnih others, I'd say you need to grow up. 

OK this is exactly the attitude where a bit more selfreflection is more than needed.

You know that Williams post is not at all fixed and it is more than intolearable for any adult human being. So not reduce yourself in justiying Williams pure unreflected aggresion unless you want to be part of it.

I’ve already made my point.

Great !

As usual, your music and orchestral arrangements are very enjoyable !

Let's stick to the music !

PS: I did not follow your conversation ! Now I see that it's a long thread here ...

@Guy Bacos said:

Once more, trying to dimisnih others, I'd say you need to grow up. 

OK this is exactly the attitude where a bit more selfreflection is more than needed.

You know that Williams post is not at all fixed and it is more than intolearable for any adult human being. So not reduce yourself in justiying Williams pure unreflected aggresion unless you want to be part of it.

Why are you doing this?? Stop trying to make Guy upset. He is one of the most talented people on this forum.  Guy tries to get along with everyone. Without him, this forum would be seriously diminished, so please stop trying to get him upset.

Yes, William has some strong opinions. So do you. So do I. Attack me all you want. 

William is a very talented artist. I cannot think of any opinion he holds that I do not agree with, so attack me.

Paul

@Guy Bacos said:

What you say is inimportant to me, Williams is a good person.

And BTW, when you attack Williams, you attack a big part of the community, so you're not making friends here.

I do not "attack" William at all. He attacks me. This is pure simple aggression. Should I search "Friends" among those who justify pure aggression? Are you seriously trying to intimidate me ? Thats funny!

But sorry I prefer to be straight and honest as I always am and have been. 

I’ve already made my point.

@fahl5 said:

I do not "attack" William at all. He attacks me.

You've made insults, cheap shots, condesceing remarks, attacks, etc and you just see the attacks towards you.

Ok, that there, says it all.

Unless you can not proof any single word of this pretention it is nothing else than pure aggression.

I’ve already made my point.