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  4. Once again - velocity X-Fade and phasing
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    I was talking about orchestral useage with reverb, such as three solo trumpets with MIR, using crossfades. No phasing is audible.  No difference between dynamic samples except for expression, or personal choice.  But no technical problems whatsoever.

    Bachrules, you ask how the recorders can have no phasing - don't ask me, ask VSL.  That is what I noticed to an amazing degree but you question it without ever trying it out. Fine, go ahead and don't believe me.   What do I know?  I will let you all figure this out to your satisfaction.  You all know far more than I ever could I'm sure. 

    btw, Jimmy - thanks for noticing! 

    goodbye Forum...
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    @Another User said:

    There is no phasing with velocity crossfade in sustaining vsl instruments.  They are different samples, and do not phase at all.
    You see "phasing" as something that can only occur when identical samples are doubled. That's not how everyone uses the word "phasing" though; and it's not how O.P. intended the word. Maybe you have some ego thing where this won't get through to you, in which case, okay goodbye then.
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    Does VI Pro allow you to set your own crossfades?  Idk why I thought it did, but that would be pretty cool and would basically answer everyone's questions.
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    @William said:

    ... the recorders are one solo library that actually does have zero phasing no matter how you crossfade them.

    How is that possible, unless it leaps suddenly from one velocity layer to the next, instead of fading between them? Don't cross-fades by their very nature play two layers at the same time? Isn't playing two layers at the same time what Jimmy is refering to when he writes, "doubling/chorusing"?

    VSL only recorded a single dynamic for the sustaining articulations of the recorders (although they recorded two different dynamics for the shorts e.g. staccato).

    Hence the velocity xfade on sustaining articulations is never crossfading between two different recordings, and hence there is never any 'doubling' audible (because there isn't any).  All the velocity xfade is effectively doing is turning up the volume with no change in timbre.

    If you use velocity xfade on the short articulations of the recorders like staccato (not that you'd want to in practice - it is usually more intuitive to use velocity to control dynamics for short articulations) you WILL hear the doubling effect at the point where the two different dynamics recordings are heard at the same time.
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    @William said:

    There is no phasing with velocity crossfade in sustaining vsl instruments.  They are different samples, and do not phase at all.
    You see "phasing" as something that can only occur when identical samples are doubled. That's not how everyone uses the word "phasing" though; and it's not how O.P. intended the word. Maybe you have some ego thing where this won't get through to you, in which case, okay goodbye then.


    The quote there was an absolute statement of the impossibility of *phasing* with any VSL 'sustaining instrument'. Then it's particular things where it doesn't occur. Then we find that the definition of 'phasing' is special, suited to make the above statement bulletproof. And one of these libraries may simply not have crossfading on sus patches at all.
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    BachRules,

    Sorry, I didn't mean anything unkind to you.
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    @BachRules said:

    ...because I am not supposed to admit there is a chorus-effect under some circumstances.

    Nonsense, everyone here is well aware of the chorus problem and it is spoken freely. That is why it is not recommended to use velocity x-fade on solo passages. I can only guess about the reason no one answers your question about the cross-fades ranges, but I would suspect it is simply that no one cares.The information provided in the manual about the split points is clear enough and requires little divination.

     Just a note: the "chorus" effect is called "phasing" colloquially, but it is technically wrong. Phasing requires two identical samples and that does not occur in VSL at all. Civilization's "doubling" is a much better terminology.
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    @William said:

    BachRules,

    Sorry, I didn't mean anything unkind to you.

    Likewise. I hope you're not leaving. I am learning a lot from your posts about various subjects, sometimes old posts when I Google and they turn up. I don't mean to discourage your helpfulness.
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    @Another User said:

    Just a note: the "chorus" effect is called "phasing" colloquially, but it is technically wrong. Phasing requires two identical samples and that does not occur in VSL at all. Civilization's "doubling" is a much better terminology.

    What's your authoritative source for the definition of "phasing"?
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    @Another User said:

    What's your authoritative source for the definition of "phasing"?

    Reality. The effect of phasing, akin to a comb filter, quires two identical waveforms displaced in time ever so slightly. If they are different you get the illusion of two instruments playing, which is called doubling in orchestral terms. Everyone that recorded two microphones pointing at the same source faced this, and it is the same principle of the phasing effect on guitars. I would suggest you to try it, but I suspect you are only asking to be confrontational.
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    @BachRules said:

    The information provided in the manual is clear as in, even though you've read the manual, you still don't know the answer to the question:

    I do know the answer.... The velocity crossfade will take effect where the dynamic layers are split.

    But splits occur between two integer velocity values, while crossfade-ranges don't occur between two integer velocity values -- they rather occur over a contiguous range of velocity values. You are only pretending to know where the ranges are, as you really only know where the split points are. Why all the pretense from you?
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    I'm sorry. I am impaired by paranoia? I don't know which forums you used to frequent, but this is outright disrespect, one that I would not expect from a fellow composer. It is clear from your style of posting that you just dissect everything people post to you and try to confront them, in this thread and in others. So believe what you will, composers here tried to share their insights on the problem and their experience, only to see you make the question more and more specific, so no one can answer. Farewell.
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    @Another User said:

    It is okay to ask exactly where the crossfades are occuring. This should upset no one....

    If you continue aggression towards me, you will end up hurting yourself.
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    The tone of this discussion has become disturbing.

    Anyway, are the crossing points for VelXFs for each instrument set up differently so as to enable the most realistic cresc. and decresc?
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    @johnstaf said:

    ...crossing points ranges for VelXFs...

    [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/mxHXhM3.png[/IMG]
  • J
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    I mean the CC values for the VelXF for the point at which only one layer is audible. I would expect these points to be the same as the crossover points for using velocity, unless they've been altered for a particular reason, such as playablity.
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    @johnstaf said:

    I mean the CC values for the VelXF for the point at which only one layer is audible. I would expect these points to be the same as the crossover points for using velocity, unless they've been altered for a particular reason, such as playablity.

    I'm not sure what you mean, but I wouldn't know the answer to your question anyway.
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    @Tralen said:

    only to see you make the question more and more specific, so no one can answer
    Why couldn't VSL disclose where the ranges are? It seems VSL is able to provide that information, but they're choosing not to; and instead of being honest about that, you go attacking me for even asking the question. You lie and attack me for requesting documentation, as if it's some obsequious fanboy duty. All your foolishness here, just your way of showing that you're obsessing over me. There are times and places for you to fawn over me if you continue to feel compelled, but not here in a thread about crossfades which doesn't concern you.