Vienna Symphonic Library Forum
Forum Statistics

200,804 users have contributed to 43,212 threads and 259,133 posts.

In the past 24 hours, we have 3 new thread(s), 6 new post(s) and 51 new user(s).

  • You're right about the musical adjustments that players make because they are playing in an ensemble - it is a basic part of the ensemble sound and lost when you stick separate solo recordings together.  But the "bleed-through" is not a flaw but an essential part of the players fitting together as an ensemble. 

    For example - suppose (a somewhat weird situation) that the players were recorded as true soloists in totally isolated recording chambers but playing together with headphones. They would sound like separate solo players, and not blend into the true ensemble sound that the Dimension players have. 


  • I think we'll have to agree to disagree.  I still maintain that if you were to isolate (to the extent that it's possible) a single player in an ensemble, that player would not sound like an individual player in DS.  I'm not suggesting they'll sound likje a 'soloist', that's a misinterpretation of what I've been saying.  But they will still sound like a solo, individual player, clearly and distinctively a single instrument.

    I can only assume that the way DS is constructed, the editing of articulations and particularly legato transitions is designed to work specifically in an ensemble context, when all players are blended together, which means that it's not possible to fully and accurately capture the individual transitions that are specific to a single player.  This in turn means that one player in isolation lacks the individuality that gives a solo player (not a 'soloist' but a single player heard on it's own) it's character.

    Then again, I could be completely wrong.  At the end of the day, I suppose I'd just like more solo string options, because those that are on the market (aside from the VSL solo strings) are really not up to the job.


  • It is not to do solo players.  It is to do individually controllable ENSEMBLE PLAYERS. 

    If you want pure solo - then use Solo Strings. 


  • Having, in the past, played both solo double-bass and orchestral double-bass, as has already been pointed out, the techniques used are very different.  One of the reasons that recording "X" number of solo instruments and then trying to create an ensemble out of them doesn't work is that each player will NOT be interacting with the other players in the section, something that is essential to ensemble string section playing.  In the section, each player will nuance his/her playing to blend with the section in terms of style/intonation/musicality, etc.  In solo playing, one is not looking to blend, but to stand out.  In a section, no one individual player is the focus, as a soloist, the soloist is the focus.

    As a side note: ye olde GPO did indeed attempt to build sections out of solo string players (but that library cannot be compared to anything VSL offers as it is entry-level in the extreme).


  • Noldar, the OP is referring to the sonic aspect of Dimension Strings--the fact that you can hear some bleed-through--rather than the performance aspect.  On that subject, I also believe the OP is misunderstanding the point of DS, which is to build ensembles.


  • I understand the purpose of Dimension Strings.  I bought it as soon as it was released and have beta tested VSL products for many years.

    My understanding was that one of the purposes of Dimension Strings, was to enable ensembles of varying sizes to be built, using smaller combinations of individual players.  My point is that, although it works great for larger ensembles, where you want that slightly blurred, group sound, it is significantly less effective for very small ensembles, especially where individual instruments might be playing different parts.  In my most humble of opinions, it fails to deliver a suitably intimate sound for individual players, to enable this kind of arrangement to be effective.

    I don't want it to sound like solists, I was simply hopping that it's "unlimited performance flexibility" and Herb's desire to make a library that "primarily was all about singling out the musicians", would enable these kind of intimate arrangements.  Clearly I misunderstood the purpose and scope of the library, which is entirely my own mistake.

    Thanks for all your helpful and constructive input.

    Jules


  • Jules, sorry to be irritable.

    Anyway, it is interesting to hear from string players on this question.


  • last edited
    last edited

    @Trailerman said:

    I understand the purpose of Dimension Strings.

    ...

     Clearly I misunderstood the purpose and scope of the library....

    :oP

    But on a serious note, I don't think this library was ever meant to sound like a quartet or octet, since Solo Strings is really the way to go with a group that small.  I understood DS to be for small studio sounds, chamber groups, and up, but I remember right when violins came out the general consensus was that they are ensemble-oriented and not suited for one or two players of each string type.  There are some players who have less of the bleed-through effect though.  I can't remember right off the top of my head but I feel like Violin 8 for example has more vibrato and a bit of a clearer sound, and if I'm remembering correctly that's the one I tend to bring forward a bit.


  • Always nice to have your face rubbed in it when you try and bow out of an argument gracefully.  Many thanks for that.

    Jules


  • Aw I'm sorry I didn't mean it like that, I thought you didn't even realize.  I promise my intentions were light-hearted.  I also didn't think we were arguing at all, we just had different understandings about how the product was marketed.  Anyway, my apologies!