I just discovered a great 9 minute YouTube movie from MOTU, showcasing their film scoring features.

• Routing the original movie's tracks (dialogue/effects) into mixer channels (without importing)
• Showing the movie in its own window or separate full-screen display
• Showing thumbnails of the film inside your sequence tracks
• Exporting audio and movie into a new movie file to show the director your work in progress.

You can set up multiple sequences (il.e. scenes) within the same project file.  This lets you utilize the same array of virtual instruments, effects, etc. across scenes, and reference the same movie file, with each sequence starting at it's on timecode.

For "live" conducting or performing, DP lets you set markers that generate streamers or punches superimposed in the movie window. 

It also has a powerful conductor track, to manage tempo changes.  There is also a tempo calculator to help you find a best-fit tempo based on hit points you've marked in the project.

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For background:  I am a DP user.  I previously used Cubase (ten years ago), and liked it a lot, but DP offered better film scoring features.  Not sure first-hand what Cubase offers today, but I've gotten the impression DP is still ahead.  

About twenty years go, my first DAW ever was C-Lab Notator for Atari ST - the predecessor to Logic.  At that time, Logic was considered very powerful but also kind of complex to work with.  But over the years, and leading into their acquisition by Apple, I think it's gotten easier to use.  So, anyway, I'm a case in point for what was posted previously:  Every now and then we all have to take a fresh look at what's out there and decide what seems to work best for our current needs!

p.s. If you google "film scoring challenge logic vs digital performer" - someone else has done a comparison video that I found interesting, and might have some more perspective for you.

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ljd7R8ASuw

look like this guy dont know the use of folder in Logic, this much better than chunck as you can make many music proposition for one scene, juste muting and unmuting folders 

edit: on second thought, I should not comment on this topic any more!

I'm sorry my friend but muting and unmuting folders is nothing at all like Chunks. Not even close. First of all you can mute and unmute folders in DP. In fact you can disable VIs (which is like muting but it removes the VI from memory therefore freeing up resources).

Chuncks is a completly different level of workflow. You can have multiple sequences in DP (called Chuncks), the when you've finished your cue (sequence), you can arrange ALL of your cues in a Song. A Song in DP is a collection of Chunks. In other words, it's all of your cues in one window which you get to arrange by draging around icons that represent the cues.

Each sequence can have a whole templae of MIDI tracks, while the VIs are in DP's vrack (all sequences access the VIs in the vrack), or the VIs could be in VEPro. It works either way.

For film composers, this means you could playback an entire soundtrack in the Song window without touching the computer. I have sequences with my full orchestral template of MIDI tracks, and DP with Chuncks in the Song window will playback all of my orchestral cues synced to a movie.

No other DAW has this feature (that I'm aware of). Check out this video. javascript:mctmp(0);

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That being said, I sometimes use Logic and enjoy it. I think Cubase is very good for midi orchstral as well.

Btw, the same guy who coded the early version of Performer (the pre-DP DAW MIDI sequencer), also wrote the early code for midi in Pro Tools.

Cheers!

Good reply. That's exactly right. I believe that MOTU is going to add VST3 support to both their OSX and Windows versions of DP in an upcoming update but that is only speculation. MOTU has not said anything about that directly. Having VST3 support and a Windows version could help DP sales quite a bit with users relying on VEPro considering what a great DAW it is otherwise, and MOTU is well aware of the VEPro issue. I was considering a switch to Cubase too, or at least using both for different tasks (DP is a great audio DAW too), but am going to stick it out to see what happens.

Is there someone here that has worked orchestra on both Logic (X preferably) AND DP (8 preferably)? Which program have you found easier and the most efficient - as well as efficacious of course, for MIDI sculpting (VSL instruments) and CC lanes? Please state your reasons on prefering one program to the other, thanks. Also, I wonder how steep you'd consider the learning curve switching from Logic to DP.

Errikos - I have used both Logic 9 and DP8 on large orchestral projects. On an indie film project I did last year I got a good opportunity to compare Logic and DP for myself. I composed some cues in Logic and some in DP to answer the very same questions you're asking yourself. I'd be glad to tell you what I found out. I'm replying on an iPad right now but when I get to my studio tonight I'll reply with some concrete examples that you can try for yourself if you like. I take it you have Logic X from your other posts, but I recommend that you download the 30-day demo of DP8 from the MOTU site so you can try a few things that I'll mention for yourself and see which way of working you like better.

Thanks for taking the trouble, I look forward to your post.

Errikos - I haven't forgot about you. I'll reply soon. I was going to give you a side by side breakdown of how I felt while I was working in both. The bottom line basically is I enjoyed sketching in Logic. Logic can be fun. But when things get serious I move over to DP because of a few features like Chunks, DP's incredibly tight marking and synching with video, track groups, being able to enable and disable any track in real time (not freeze tracks) which removes resources if needed without losing anything, every MIDI track is multitimbral, DP's Bundle's feature. I prefer DP's audio editing. MIDI editing is a personal preference. I like things about both, but feel more comfortable editing MIDI in DP. DP can read AUs, VSTs and MAS. Logic just AU.

I'll reply back later with a better comparison (haven't slept in two days). I do like Logic. But I default to DP for almost all styles, especially orchestral and film.

But, if you do well in Logic, there are many many great composers using Logic. The guy from Spitfire Audio hs a huge Logic based rig. The guys from CineSamples (except for one guy who uses DP). I know thee are deveolpers, but the guy from Spitfire is a working composer and his name just poped into my tired brain.

I'll get back when I'm more together.

Thanks for remembering nad for all this useful information. I have used Logic for years, I can't say I am unhappy with it (I wish it had those Expression Maps), but I am much more musician than engineer and I am trying to determine which of the main three DAWs is the most user-friendly, without having to sacrifice quality. I am someone that doesn't use external effects-hardware or other companies' plug-ins (save for VSL). How would you compare the quality of Logic's effects and plug-ins to those of DP's and Cubase's for serious orchestral and film work? Please note that I work from Sibelius to DAW, not the other way around.

When you're feeling rested of course.

I have realized I should not comment on many topics here.  Of course, current film composers tend to set me off so I should refrain.  Sorry!

@Errikos said:

Thanks for remembering nad for all this useful information. I have used Logic for years, I can't say I am unhappy with it (I wish it had those Expression Maps), but I am much more musician than engineer and I am trying to determine which of the main three DAWs is the most user-friendly, without having to sacrifice quality. I am someone that doesn't use external effects-hardware or other companies' plug-ins (save for VSL). How would you compare the quality of Logic's effects and plug-ins to those of DP's and Cubase's for serious orchestral and film work? Please note that I work from Sibelius to DAW, not the other way around.

When you're feeling rested of course.

Errikos,

I use Logic X and Wavelab 8 which containes all Cubase Effects as well ... so I know both internal Effects. Especially the lastest Plug ins in Cubase 7.5 and WL 8 are better in quality, Even for Composers. Agree?

I have to take your word for it, I haven't tried them. It seems a tough pill to swallow though that Wavelab would have better plug-ins and effects than Logic.

Wavelab and Cubase are double as expensive as Logic. So, it is more than fair that they share the same effects.

The reason for Steinbergs new quality is that that they hire the old Partners from Wizoo since quite a while. Everyone who knows Wizoo-Products will know what that means for quality. For example ... there is a new Reverb in Cubase 7.5 and it is made by the Guy who created the legendary WizooVerb Plug in. But it is only the algorithmic Part of WizooVerb (there was a convolutionpart too ... maybe in Cubase 8?? ... who knows ...)

Unfortunatly this great Reverb is not in WL 8 yet ... maybe in 8.5 ...

That is why many People think, that Cubase takes the lead in Future Development. I agree.

There are great reverbs in Logic like the "Space Design". But the best is MIR 

@Errikos said:

I have to take your word for it, I haven't tried them. It seems a tough pill to swallow though that Wavelab would have better plug-ins and effects than Logic.

Thank you all guys for your input, I was trying to gauge from you which DAW you thought had the better EQs, Compressors, Reverbs, etc., on its own, otherwise I know that there are dedicated companies of software and hardware plug-ins, even this company's own Vienna Suite and MIR.

Errikos - Again, sorry for the delay. Was out of town.

About plugins between DP and Logic. As of Logic 9 vs DP 6 or 7, Logic has had way many more plugins which helped it's popularity (MOTU has a way of being late with these things). And Logic's plugins are exceptional. Apple continues to add nice pop music plugins (like the drummer feature, and the amp sims). There are some handy plugins unique to Logic that DP does not have (Test Oscillator, Exciter, Grooveshifter, Sub Bass, Pitch Shifter - as a plugin , but DP has it like melodyne, built into the waveform. I think Logic X has this now?), BPM Counter - as a plugin, and some of the Dist, Delay, Filter and Modulation plugins. DP does have different takes of some of these.

On the other hand, DP 7 and 8 added some nice plugins itself. (check out this web page http://www.motu.com/products/software/dp/plug-ins.html).

Some of the highlights are speaker cabinet rooms for guitar and bass (fairly unique - almost MIR like), a very nice dynamic EQ, a wonderful phase correction plugin (I use it all the time), a 5-band MS dynamic EQ, a de-esser that's a one band dynamic EQ, a sub-kick bass drum enhancer, a deep ensemble chorus, the Masterworks series Comp, Limiter, EQ (very nice) and a LA-2A clone leveler.

Some of DP's unique plugins are Pattern Gate, POLAR (a RAM based loop recorder - great for vocal re-takes), an MS decoder, a Moog style multi mode filter, and the assortment of Delay, Dist, Modulation, Filter and Reverb types.

It's fairly even now, but with Logic having a few more plugins, both having high end plugins, but DP having a small handful of killer plugins that Logic doesn't have, and visa versa. Logic's Space Designer is roughly equal to DP's utilitarian ProVerb. Both are great, but neither is AltiVerb.

Also, DP has had MIDI plugins and Spectral Effects  for 20 years, (can edit pitch, time and formant, like flex time but without the ability to automate speed and pitch together - for the tape machine stop effect for example).

DP has part of VocAlign built in.

DP does not have Apple Loops (but can use them, nor does it have the new drummer feature). DP does not have a decent sampler nor many VIs (this is where Logic KILLS DP). One has to buy DP's VIs separately (a stupid move IMO)

Overall, except for VIs, they just about even each other out. I'd give Logic the edge but with DP having a few killer must haves.

I know I'm leaving something out but that's a pretty decent breakdown I think. Go to that link above and you'll see for yourself.

If there is one DAW that comes with enough VIs and plugins to do a pro production out of the box, it's Logic. Cubase has it's good plugins (Halion, Padshop and many many others), DP does have MachFive which is great, but is not included with DP (MOTU hear's from me often about this), but regardless which DAW one chooses in our business we all need Kontakt pretty much anyway.

Logic is a great DAW. Overall DP does certain things better, IMO. There are a lot of Cubase users here, but there are a lot of strengths to Cubase, Logic and DP (and Pro Tools too), and I like having three of them generally - DP, Logic and PT. Together they cover so much ground and I like switching to Logic for some things, and back to DP for others. No big deal to me.

I'd like note Expressions, but I can live without. I'm waiting to find out if VEPro and DP are having issues (mentioned in another thread), but I see no reason to leave DP for Cubase. I see no reason to leave Logic for anything. But I see very good reasons to learn a couple of contrasting DAWs. It doesn't take much time as there is a lot of cross over.

Hope that helps. I'll try to add a lot more detail to the DP vs Logic orchestral music comparison soon. DP wins, IMO, for a couple of very important reasons, but you have no reason to stop using Logic for orchestral music if you're getting the job done IMO. Logic's score editor is actually is better than DP (but I use Sibelius anyway).

Hi all,

Interesting thread. Like some of you I've used DP (started there in v2. whoa...) and Logic and even PT (but not much) to do midi/orchestra film and TV work. I switched to Logic 7 from DP because I kept having crashes in DP that seemed to have to do with the file size.

I like to write a score as one long document (crazy I know, but its my workflow- i really like to be able to play from cue to cue, or to look at large sections of the score with the current music in place, and to go back and reference the way i dealt with a theme in a previous cue) and with DP5, when the file (sequence) got to be a certain size, things began to go south, sometimes in ways that were unrecoverable. This happened whether or not I was using chunks as a workaround. So that meant having to write individual sequences for each cue, or at least (in the old days) double reels, and then keep a separate session with rough mixes in place to use for watching the whole project. Many times I have been able to address directors' or producers' concerns just by playing a cue and isolating certain elements they are not liking. Of course that doesn't work at the same speed if you can't get under the hood on individual cues.

I did go back to DP7 last year for a couple of projects, because I wanted to see how it handles multi-timbral instruments. IMHO DP is way easier to deal with than Logic in this regard. To me, the "object-oriented" interface in Logic is pretty much a nightmare, or at least requires a LOT more care and feeding than DP. Just try to use the Logic solo function... Some improvements are now in Logic X, but it's still really clumsy. And as observed elsewhere, DP really is optimized for film work in some very important ways, especially dealing with video and clicks, which are invaluable when you're working with live ensembles. Also DP deals with viewing and editing automation much more cleanly that Logic.

Things to love about Logic: being able to mute any object in the arrange page with a key command. DP will let you do this with Midi objects but not audio and that drives me pretty crazy, again because its a part of my workflow. The Logic X plugs and VI's are good. The sampler is robust and will accomodate a lot of sample formats. And, for doing audio recording, the way Logic deals with comping is way the best among DP. PT and Logic. Really bulletproof and fast.

And dittos on thenightwatch: But I see very good reasons to learn a couple of contrasting DAWs. 

I too love the experience of switching back and forth. And spending some time playing around in Reason and Live because of the excellent differences in those UIs and the weird results they will yield.

mac pro 2.4 / OSX 10.8.5 / 16GB / Avid192s / NI Komplete, All Spectrasonics, VEP, UAD