The missing elements for realism are the noises that often cause re-takes in the studio environment. In otherwords the extraneous sounds the individual and ensemble players make performing the score. For a sampled library it is sensible to filter this out but in the real world all these sounds exist to some degree so would be expected to be present to some extent by the listener.

I found that a room tone can prevent the drop off to dead silence at the end on a piece but would not normally be heard until that point, whereas small sounds of breaths, bow movements floor creaks are the missing realism from a sampled orchestra.

Julian.

@julian said:

The missing elements for realism are the noises that often cause re-takes in the studio environment. In otherwords the extraneous sounds the individual and ensemble players make performing the score. For a sampled library it is sensible to filter this out but in the real world all these sounds exist to some degree so would be expected to be present to some extent by the listener.

I found that a room tone can prevent the drop off to dead silence at the end on a piece but would not normally be heard until that point, whereas small sounds of breaths, bow movements floor creaks are the missing realism from a sampled orchestra.

Julian.

I'm in two minds about this. Whilst on the one hand I agree with you, the other tells me that I've spent years telling players to be quiet, and have therefore become very sensitive to studio noise.

I think my feelings would be:

1. Always use room noise (as Dietz suggested) to avoid digital silence.
2. Never use extra extraneous noise for Media related music
3. Try to use a tiny amount of studio noise for CD release.

DG

I think there is a false assumption here. I agree "some" room noise is important, but you could simply end up with a piece that has a bit of ambience but that doesn't sound any better. I think it's better to invest in the ambience of each instrument and naturally their expression. I've heard people put room noise and it didn't do a single thing for me, on the contrary it even gave a bad effect. I think you have to be very careful in not trying to compensate something else by room noise. And having noises of chairs and such is pretty ridiculous. The problem I see is that the ambience added is too unrelated to what's going on or doesn't seem to have any connection, this is why it doesn't really work, at least in my opinion. I'm not saying it shouldn't be added, but just a drop.

@Guy Bacos said:

I think there is a false assumption here. I agree "some" room noise is important, but you could simply end up with a piece that has a bit of ambience but that doesn't sound any better. I think it's better to invest in the ambience of each instrument and naturally their expression. I've heard people put room noise and it didn't do a single thing for me, on the contrary it even gave a bad effect. I think you have to be very careful in not trying to compensate something else by room noise. And having noises of chairs and such is pretty ridiculous. The problem I see is that the ambience added is too unrelated to what's going on or doesn't seem to have any connection, this is why it doesn't really work, at least in my opinion.

Guy, I think that the room noise thing really depends on what sort of piece you are writing. If it is all bells and whistles, there is absolutely no point, because it would be at such a low level that you wouldn't hear it anyway. However, if there are moments of silence, having nothing is really distracting and cold, whereas a bit of room tone really helps. Of course if your reverb tails are so long that they cover up the gap totally, it is again a waste of effort.

DG

Well for sure you don't need it for thick orchestration pieces, But I wasn't talking about that either. I understand it fills in the emptiness of the silence moments, yeah, I totally understand that, but personally, I would not count on it to live in up your piece or even give it ambience, just add it in as a bonus, a drop.

It's not that I don't understand the logic behind this, but with my experience and from what I heard, it's just not convincing, I hear 2 unrelated things. As for if your oboe has a really nice decay with a nice tail, I don't have any problem with the emptiness. But this is a personal thing anyway, so to each his own.

So no current links? [8o|]

If you are looking for noise made by people in a concert hall (sighing, page turning, feet shufling, chairs squeaking etc.), then you can get it here: http://dummyworld.net/programs/?category=Music

(look for Kontakt 3 Shhh effects library)

If by "ambient noise" you mean something like what a famous Russian actor recently described in his interview, saying that there are two types of silence in the theater: a silence of an empty hall and a total silence of the hall filled by the audience in the state of awe, their attention drawn to the stage, then I guess it can hardly be percieved or captured by anything other than  the minds of the people present at such an event.

Brilliant post. Thanks, el-russo!

@el-russo said:

then I guess it can hardly be percieved or captured by anything other than  the minds of the people present at such an event.

So the question is - can that silence be captured in a great sample performance or recording because it is psychological, and as a result you do not need to fake it?  Because I suppose, people will be so intent upon the music they will not be able to notice anything else.  I think that what can do this best is a room tone (like the MIR stage floor), not ambient intermittent noises,  so that you hear it at first and then simply forget it is there as your attention shifts to the music. 

If you have MIR, that's the best option. But in the past, I sometimes used the room sound of the concert organ, which is subtle while it does the job. I like the natural feel of it.

Hi

Here is another link for getting general noises around the theme "Concert Noises" - it seems with stage noises as well...

http://www.virtuasonic.com/noise_at_the_concert.htm

Best

Beat

Thanks Beat, but he wants 20 buck for that noise! I'd settle for a 60 second MP3 loop from somebody that has a just air sample, with maybe 1 or 2 chair sqeeks.

[B]