just to add my 2c: if you are recording (=writing) to the same disk from which you are stzreaming sample content from (=reading) you will reach the limit much earlier.

just partitioning a drive (to get 2 volumes) doesn't help - the heads of the disk would have to move intensively between the various sections of the platters.

Thanks for all the great information.

I am planning on getting a second drive. Just waiting for my ship to come in...

@cm said:

just to add my 2c: if you are recording (=writing) to the same disk from which you are stzreaming sample content from (=reading) you will reach the limit much earlier.

just partitioning a drive (to get 2 volumes) doesn't help - the heads of the disk would have to move intensively between the various sections of the platters.

Hmm. . . I'm planning to move from an older XP machine to a new 7 one, and this makes me wonder if I should be buying three HD's:  one for the OS and apps, another for the sample libraries, and a third for all my files (which will include a mix of midi and audio).  Is this what you are recommending?   I've been using only 2 HD's for years, with no (noticeable) problems, but I'd like to do it right. . .

If so, would it make sense to make the OS HD solid state, while leaving the other two as non-SSDs?   Would there be any incompatibilities this way?

Thanks for your feedback!

recommendation for sample streaming (Vienna Instruments, but also others) is a fast seperate harddrive for storing sample content.

if you prefer to have OS and applications also seperated from your other files is a matter of taste so to speak, recording to this system drive depends on recommendations for your recording software ...

having an SSD as system drive is not a must, but we found the boot time to be significantly shorter especially running windows 7 when using SSD.

@Another User said:

recording to this system drive depends on recommendations for your recording software ...

I'll be using Cubase 5, and (possibly Sound Forge).  Do you happen to know what Cubase recommends?

Thanks again!

the *virus could destroy my system drive* argument is somehow valid ... especially since havin an antivirus program on an audio computer can sometimes be a bad idea. i for myself create an image from my system drive now and then to have a backup which can be restored quickly just in case.

on the other hand default project files and temporary cubase files also reside on the system drive by default, so if you didn't change that ...

my recommendation above was for a setup where you have only 2 drives and need to record and steam samples simultaneously ...

@Another User said:

on the other hand default project files and temporary cubase files also reside on the system drive by default, so if you didn't change that ...

I always save all files -- for all apps -- on a non-system drive.  However, all the temporary files -- and certainly all the app settings -- are in the C:/documents and settings -- not much I can do about that, aside from taking your tip about creating system drive images.

Can a server-type Windows 7 computer (I've been told that I must buy a server-type machine in order to use more than 24 GB RAM -- is that true?) accept two non-SSDs plus one SSD?  Would I require anything special to do that?

Thanks again!

for imaging i'm using Acronis True Image ... home edition 😉 boots from CD, recognizes almost all kind of drives. of course you can also use ghost, i just don't like it ...

@michael_maberly said:

Can a server-type Windows 7 computer (I've been told that I must buy a server-type machine in order to use more than 24 GB RAM -- is that true?) accept two non-SSDs plus one SSD?

i7 motherboards usually have 6 memory slots and i'm not aware of any i7 motherboard taking more than 6 x 4 GB RAM ....

so if you want to get more you need a dual processor (socket) motherboard and some XEON processors - but hey, you can go very far with 24 GB RAM.

number of SSDs and non-SSDs only depends on the number of sATA ports you have on the motherboard (subtract one for the DVD-drive and on some motherboards there is one dedicated to eSATA (external SATA) ... eg my X58 motherboard here has 5 ports + 1 eSATA, so i can add 4 drives (plus the DVD) of whatever type i like (as long as they are sATA of course)

Thanks very much for all this help!

@Another User said:

so if you want to get more you need a dual processor (socket) motherboard and some XEON processors

Yes, that's what my retailer is proposing.  Will I need the two CPUs to access more than 24GB RAM, or can I use only one XEON processor, and leave the other socket empty, and still have access to all the RAM?

Thanks again!

you might be on the road to the overkill-mode 😉

@michael_maberly said:

Will I need the two CPUs to access more than 24GB RAM, or can I use only one XEON processor, and leave the other socket empty, and still have access to all the RAM?

no, at least the motherboards i know don't support that ... exception: there are 8 GB sticks for XEON boards (DDR3 ECC buffered) -> 6 x 8 = 48 GB ...

there *should* be also 8 GB sticks for i7 boards, but if you would even find them (and a motherboard which supports it) they would be _very_ expensive ...

Hmm. . . and my retailer was even suggesting that I use a much less expensive Intel E5504 Quad Core, 2 Ghz, 4MB cache for it . . . I'm now wondering whether two of those would even access all the RAM!

If I were to go the i7 route, would you recommend trying to find ECC RAM for it -- I've heard it makes for a more stable system -- or does ECC not make much difference?

Thanks again!

for a - somehow futureproof - audio machine i wouldn't go below a 5620 ... i7 doesn't take ECC, XEON requires ECC memory

@cm said:

for a - somehow futureproof - audio machine i wouldn't go below a 5620 ... i7 doesn't take ECC, XEON requires ECC memory

Thanks for this very helpful advice!

I think "overkill mode" is the right statement here .)

The question for me would be if you do this as your core business (film/score...) on a professional basis where you need 100% performance, stability and backup security. At the same time can you profit from expenditures speaking of tax deductions and stuff like that ?

Also, how many performance heavy instruments do you plan to use at the same time ?

i mean, we still speak about music production, not NASA´s mission to Mars. In our company we have some computers running heavy duty simulation tasks (Synopsis and stuff like that). Even they run with non ECC RAM out of the box.

If you care for stability, I´d buy a good motherboard with excellent cooling, and wouldn´t overclock the system, even if you loose a few % of possible performance.

@kleinholgi said:

I think "overkill mode" is the right statement here .)

The question for me would be if you do this as your core business (film/score...) on a professional basis where you need 100% performance, stability and backup security. At the same time can you profit from expenditures speaking of tax deductions and stuff like that ?

Also, how many performance heavy instruments do you plan to use at the same time ?

i mean, we still speak about music production, not NASA´s mission to Mars. In our company we have some computers running heavy duty simulation tasks (Synopsis and stuff like that). Even they run with non ECC RAM out of the box.

If you care for stability, I´d buy a good motherboard with excellent cooling, and wouldn´t overclock the system, even if you loose a few % of possible performance.

Thanks for your feedback, kleinholgi.  I'm a composer, but -- these days -- not for commercial applications like film/TV or ads.  However, I do make my living as a music instructor and music consultant  and can therefore write everything off as an expense.   I've been using GigaStudio, Cubase, and Vienna samples on an ordinary, consumer-level PC for years, and - now that I'm moving up to a Windows 7 machine and VI - I would really like to leave the glitches, crashes, CPU- and RAM- congestion behind!  Although I usually write for smaller orchestral ensembles, I would like to have the option of using the complete orchestra - along with as many non-orchestral instruments I may decide to include --  with as many articulations as I have/would like to use -- and as with as much processing as I can learn to do properly.   

Some of my peers have said 16GB RAM on a regular machine will suffice, while others have advised to "get as much RAM as you can afford!".   From what I've been learning (and my knowledge of this stuff is very basic), the only way to get more RAM is via a server board.  While I can't afford a $5000 machine, I'm willing to spend more than the cost of a typical consumer machine if it will mean fewer hassles and happier computer composing. 

Toward that end, I'd welcome any feedback, including motherboard, CPU, and RAM types/models/amounts.

Thanks!

@michael_maberly said:

Thanks for your feedback, kleinholgi.  I'm a composer, but -- these days -- not for commercial applications like film/TV or ads.  However, I do make my living as a music instructor and music consultant  and can therefore write everything off as an expense.   I've been using GigaStudio, Cubase, and Vienna samples on an ordinary, consumer-level PC for years, and - now that I'm moving up to a Windows 7 machine and VI - I would really like to leave the glitches, crashes, CPU- and RAM- congestion behind!  Although I usually write for smaller orchestral ensembles, I would like to have the option of using the complete orchestra - along with as many non-orchestral instruments I may decide to include --  with as many articulations as I have/would like to use -- and as with as much processing as I can learn to do properly.   

Some of my peers have said 16GB RAM on a regular machine will suffice, while others have advised to "get as much RAM as you can afford!".   From what I've been learning (and my knowledge of this stuff is very basic), the only way to get more RAM is via a server board.  While I can't afford a $5000 machine, I'm willing to spend more than the cost of a typical consumer machine if it will mean fewer hassles and happier computer composing. 

Toward that end, I'd welcome any feedback, including motherboard, CPU, and RAM types/models/amounts.

Thanks!

Michael,

Most i7 motherboards can take up to 24 GB of RAM these days. There's no need to go to a server board to get 24 gigs. Recently I've built a slave system which includes the following components, and everything seems to be working very well together. I haven't pushed this system to any major limits yet, but I'm confident it can handle quite a lot. It also allows for a bit of overclocking, if I'm feeling plucky. (Actually overclocking is easy and dumbed down for folks like me on this Asus motherboard.)

Anyway, here it is -- a micro ATX factor slave to do my bidding:

ASUS Rampage II Gene (micro atx motherboard)

24 GB (6x4) Gskill RAM (Model F3-10666CL9T2-24GBRL)

i7 920 2.66 ghz

4 WD 500 gb caviar black hard drives

Gskill makes very good RAM; I've never had a problem with it. And Asus makes very good boards. I can confirm that these two work well together.

Hope that helps,

Mahlon

@Mahlon said:

Most i7 motherboards can take up to 24 GB of RAM these days. There's no need to go to a server board to get 24 gigs. Recently I've built a slave system which includes the following components, and everything seems to be working very well together.

Thanks for taking the time to write, Mahlon - I appreciate it!

My plan is to have most of my music apps (Cubase 5, VSE (complete), Vienna Ensemble, Notion 3, Sound Forge, Finale) on the new machine, while running GigaStudio on my XP, with some kind of Midi-over-lan and audio cable connecting the two.  I'm guessing that having my sequencer on the new machine will make that the Master, and XP the slave.  Do you think that will have any negative effect on the setup that you cite?

Beyond that, I guess the main questions remaining for me are: 

• Is it likely that we'll be needing more than 24GB to run full libraries, etc, in, say, five years?  
  
• If so, is it less expensive, in the long run, to buy a machine that has the capacity for far more RAM now, rather than have to buy a new machine in five years?
• Is ECC worth the investment, in terms of system stability and - ultimately - a more hassle-free music computer experience?

Thanks again!

Hi Michael,

O.K., if you run in professional mode, the cost aspect maybe different (I think it deeply depends on the individual tax situation).

Nevertheless saving money ist most often the better choice IMO :)

O.K. , do we need 24 GB or more Ram in five years ?  Possible. But I would never buy a PC to be valid for a time scale that long. This doesn´t mean that I´d refuse and automatically throw it away, but actively planning with such an immense overhead, that a machine of today can compete with one in more than 5 years is possible but extremely expensive. Most often it is a better choice to just buy a new computer when the time comes.

Of course new installations are a very nasty point, expecially with hardware locked software products, all the serial numbers etc ( where was the plastic box with that tiny sticker forgotten about 6 years ago.......?  ), but sometimes it is a good way to refresh the system setup anyway and migration tools also keep getting better.

I guarantee you that you will be sneeking around the $900 mid-sized-out-of-the-box gaming PCs, which every supermarket will sell in 4 years and offset the performance of the high end machines that we can buy now ( ....O.K we are not talking about IBM Blue Jean or something like that, not to speak of the often mentioned CRAY, "the only computer running an endless lopp in less than ..." :[:D]   , at least you can sit on it and enjoy the waterfall cooling , by the way the German Tech Museum in Munich has one of that, everytime a must see/sit on....)

Coming to ECC , I didn´t follow the price lists lately, but I fear it will get expensive and you have not so many products to choose from. If you motherboard can handle it and you are willing to pay the price, go ahead, but I think this will bring you directly to the server platforms, because Intel usually shuts down the ECC support in their non server lines, although the controller could deliver it in theory. There may be workarounds  (X58 series ? ) , but you have to make sure before buying.

I wouldn´t do it, if it would be for my system.

It maybe different for live TV broadcast applications or something like that, where I could understand it, but even if the sequencer crashes 1 in 10000 times because of a memory instability ...... in a studio environment Microsoft, Adobe, Flash, Shockwave, GFX , audiodrivers, and so on crashed 100 times before.

If you want to care for your RAM, cool it well. Put good ventilation into the PC casing and/or mount some extra heatspreaders if needed. Usually the modern RAM sticks come with them directly integrated, at least the better ones.

When you seek for performance -> Buy at least one SSD for the boot system. if you like it and there is some spare money also consider one for samples. Although I think we will see a big price drop for these items in the future, but as said in the beginning : Don´t look back on former price/performance rations when it comes to electronics.

@kleinholgi said:

saving money ist most often the better choice. . .  Most often it is a better choice to just buy a new computer when the time comes. . . Coming to ECC ,  . . .in a studio environment Microsoft, Adobe, Flash, Shockwave, GFX , audiodrivers, and so on crashed 100 times before. . . Buy at least one SSD for the boot system

Thanks for your very thoughtful and thorough reply, Kleinholgi -- I appreciate it!   I'm expecting some cost quotes from my retailer, soon, and I will definitely keep your's, CM's and Mahlon's generous advice in mind when determining the best way forward.

You´re welcome. Let us know what system made it the end.

Greetings

kh