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@PaulR said:
Hey MikeZaz - how you doing mate. Good to to see you here after so long. Fantastic. How's Trevor mate? Alright?
Didn't I mention to you the last time that you talk fucking shyte. Well you're still talking fucking shyte Mike. Good to hear from you again mate. Keep up the good work. :)
Paul, I still want to know where I posted before and why you remember me. It must have been good
One question to this mikezazz entity after glancing at the endless university-mentality bullshit.
I don't give a crap about all your academia crap. What you think in your little ivory tower world means nothing to me. Intellectualism in music is ludicrous. Music undercuts all of your universe and destroys it utterly. One moment of a simple folksong is worth all of your life's dissertations put together.
What music do you do? Let's hear some of it. This forum is made up of professional composers - like me - who have been ground down into the dirt many times by academic assholes like you. I remember many times the arrogance of professors and their disciples looking down on the people who ACTUALLY LIVED IN MUSIC - such as professional composers in film and TV. They would always smirk just like you are doing here. But these composers are the ones who actually CREATE music - while you talk about it and act superior and put on airs.
Let's hear the music YOU do. Put on a link. I want to hear it, because until I do - you are nothing with all your arrogant posturing and bullshit references to this and that. Who cares? But if youactually do some good music - them I will shut up instantly. Becuase I totally respect someone who can create real music. But someone with a big mouth? No way.
If you want a link to my stuff - It's all out there for anyone. Anytime. Anywhere.
BTW - I never studied composition in college. There was no point.
@William said:
One question to this mikezazz entity after glancing at the endless university-mentality bullshit.
I don't give a crap about all your academia crap. What you think in your little ivory tower world means nothing to me. Intellectualism in music is ludicrous. Music undercuts all of your universe and destroys it utterly. One moment of a simple folksong is worth all of your life's dissertations put together.
What music do you do? Let's hear some of it. This forum is made up of professional composers - like me - who have been ground down into the dirt many times by academic assholes like you. I remember many times the arrogance of professors and their disciples looking down on the people who ACTUALLY LIVED IN MUSIC - such as professional composers in film and TV. They would always smirk just like you are doing here. But these composers are the ones who actually CREATE music - while you talk about it and act superior and put on airs.
Let's hear the music YOU do. Put on a link. I want to hear it, because until I do - you are nothing with all your arrogant posturing and bullshit references to this and that. Who cares? But if youactually do some good music - them I will shut up instantly. Becuase I totally respect someone who can create real music. But someone with a big mouth? No way.
If you want a link to my stuff - It's all out there for anyone. Anytime. Anywhere.
BTW - I never studied composition in college. There was no point.
Yo Will I thought you were done in this thread? I must've really gotten under your skin.
If you want to link me to your stuff, you are welcome to. I'd be happy to listen to it.
Anyway, take a deep breath and remember that this isn't personal, and maybe we can discuss music for real.
Alright, are you calm? Are we actually going to talk, or are we going to have a pissing match? Here's a piece I've had recorded that's online:
http://zazmusic.bandcamp.com/album/night-piece
It's basically sight read, so forgive the mistakes (this is an easy opportunity for you to say "You mean the entire piece? LOL!!" you have my permission).
Anyway, I have nothing against you, and you'll be completely okay in my book if you admit that most of what you said about John Cage was half remembered bullshit. You are free to add things like "and why should I remember stuff about John Cage? that guy was awful" if it makes you feel better. Just admit you were wrong.
I like what you said about "living" in the music by the way. Are you a Rilke fan by any chance?
O.K. I listened to the Night Piece I - it is good. I like the mood of the piece overall and the harmony. Also well played.
I admit I know little about John Cage - who would study someone who does a composition where a player walks onto a stage and does nothing but open the lid of a piano? That was John Cage wasn't it? Or am I "ignorant" again?
Anyway, you totally alienated me and I don't care to discuss anything with you. If you want to hear my music just look it up on this website or on the internet. I don't give a damn whether you like it or not.
This to me is the whole problem with the internet. Some people are having a discussion and somebody comes into it with an insulting tone out of the blue and acts like a complete creep. Then you are goaded into being obnoxious yourself. It is just bullshit and I am tired of it. I'll just go work on some music and leave all this bickering to you. I shouldn't blabber like this anyway - I should just shut up and work on music.
@William said:
O.K. I listened to the Night Piece I - it is good. I like the mood of the piece overall and the harmony. Also well played.
I admit I know little about John Cage - who would study someone who does a composition where a player walks onto a stage and does nothing but open the lid of a piano? That was John Cage wasn't it? Or am I "ignorant" again?
Anyway, you totally alienated me and I don't care to discuss anything with you. If you want to hear my music just look it up on this website or on the internet. I don't give a damn whether you like it or not.
This to me is the whole problem with the internet. Some people are having a discussion and somebody comes into it with an insulting tone out of the blue and acts like a complete creep. Then you are goaded into being obnoxious yourself. It is just bullshit and I am tired of it. I'll just go work on some music and leave all this bickering to you. I shouldn't blabber like this anyway - I should just shut up and work on music.
I'm glad you liked my piece, and I'm glad you were mature enough to admit that you liked it - believe me, that's rare in internet arguments 😊 I think we both know that, so mad respect there.
I'm also very glad that you admitted you know very little about John Cage. Yes, John Cage was the one who "wrote" 4'33", you are 100% correct in that. My problem, and I hope you can see it now as reasonable instead of creepy, was that you said a lot more than that in your original post, and you didn't phrase it as a question but as a fact. I'm glad we're on the same page, and if I seemed harsh or angry to an inappropriate degree, well, I already apologized, but I'll do it again. I stand by the fact that I was right, but you are correct that I didn't need to come off as angry as I did.
The only reason I did it was because I have vivid memories of doing similar things (IE busting out knowledge that I didn't actually have in discussions [here is an opportunity for you or Erikoss to say "You mean like this one?? LOL]) and I get really angry at myself thinking about it. Clearly I was projecting some of that anger onto you.
Also, as I mentioned earlier, the forums I usually post on are a lot harsher and thick skinned in general and we often get on each other's cases. However, I can assure I am a good guy and not a creep. It's always good to remember, anger on the internet is a lot like road rage, we sort of let the anonymity of it all blind us. We are both equally guilty there
As for I shouldn't blabber like this anyway - I should just shut up and work on music.
I think that's something we can both agree on.
However, I was sincere in wanting to hear your music. I googled for it on the Vienna site, but for some reason a lot of the Vienna demo pages are 404s right now. Bad timing. I looked on your main site but I all I could find were very brief excerpts on CDBaby. Maybe you have a full piece somewhere to link?
Hi Guys, Well, as the guy who started this thread (which was basically a continuation of the Zimmer thread that Dietz axed) I'm fascinated by it. Almost every time someone makes a highly subjective point (or rant), someone else responds with equal vitriol. Then the gloves come off and feathers fly. But I'm impressed with the effort made to back off a little, and get back to music. I think it can be fun debating the merits of film score and other composers, but the personal attacks and insults are tedious. So now there's some composer's music that I want to check out-- that of John Cage, Bernard Hermann, William and Mike. Cheers, Tom
@William said:
I admit I know little about John Cage - who would study someone who does a composition where a player walks onto a stage and does nothing but open the lid of a piano? That was John Cage wasn't it? Or am I "ignorant" again?
It actually gets worse. 4'.33" was such a triumph that Cage decided to follow it up with a sequel, 0'.0" (I'm serious; I'll let Mike fill in the details)...
I must admit, I had never heard of John Cage until his name was mentioned on this thread (somebody with a similar style was mentioned back in school. Maybe they were talking about Cage).
I looked him up and listened to a few of his selections.
Gentlemen, my lawyer will be contacting each and every poster on this forum for mentioning his name. I am seeking damages for the pain and suffering I went through while listening to Mr. Cage's "music."[:P] Surely you're all liable.
Seriously though. I understand that it's just a matter of taste but c'mon who listens to this stuff? I don't know Mike, I guess I'm just deaf to whatever it is you're hearing in Cage's work. Please don't say that I'm just a "layman" who doesn't understand Cage and someday, with a little education, I'll see the light. That mentality won't work because I don't understand Lady Gaga either.
Tom,
I apologize for taking your thread into the political realm but I felt compelled to respond to something Goran said in which I think he missed the point I was trying to make. In reality I wasn't trying to make any political statements with my original post to this thread I was just trying to make an analogy.
Say Tom, is this really your thread?
@Tom23 said:
I was intrigued when a responder to the infamous now-defunct HZ post wondered why thematic scoring seems gets short shrift in today's film scores.
Wasn't I the one who asked that question? I asked that question to the composer (can't remember his name) who challanged Paul R.
Well, it doesn't really matter I guess. Again, my apologies for taking the thread in a completely different direction.
@Tom23 said:
I was intrigued when a responder to the infamous now-defunct HZ post wondered why thematic scoring seems gets short shrift in today's film scores.
Wasn't I the one who asked that question? I asked that question to the composer (can't remember his name) who challanged Paul R.
Well, it doesn't really matter I guess. Again, my apologies for taking the thread in a completely different direction.
Hi,
Here are a few links to some John Cage pieces I like and find very accessible. Check it out and let me know what you like/dislike about it.
Oh, they are "accessible" works by John Cage. That is important, isn't it? Because we - being not on the higher academic level that you occupy - need "accessible" works. The assumed arrogance in these mikezaz posts is disgusting. He is NOT the superior of anyone here, o.k.? So he should stop acting like it.
I realized the reason why I was so disturbed by this otherwise trivial personage is that he brought back the mentality which I happliy thought vanished long ago - of being at a university music department. I was not a professor mind you, or a composition student, or even a music major. I was just a french horn player who was in brass choir, orchestra, brass quintet, etc. And then I took a few classes in orchestration. I took a test for advanced harmony and that was it. But at that university I ended up majoring in English. So of course, that means I was a dysfunctional wretch who couldn't figure out what to do. But the music department was a frightening collection of people who depressed, disturbed and enraged me and I realized later they were essentially people who couldn't work in music, and so went to the university.
That is all you really need to know about academic music which is the world mikezaz represents beautifully. It is basically people who don't succeed in music, and so "study" it and become professors or phonies who post long-winded statements on forums.
The people who are actually successful musicians - not me of course because I am a total anachronism and neurotic and can neither function in pop music nor the phony-ass world of mikezaz and his professors - but the other musicians here, many of whom are brilliant, are actually working musicians whose food is provided for not by lecturing and acting arrogant and intelligent about music, but by doing it.
So all of the attitude put out by this person means absolutely nothing here. Because this is first and foremost a forum for working musicians and a successful commercial enterprise that is also highly artistic.
I am sure he will have another rejoinder but he is becoming very boring with the limitations of his academically created brain.
One other thing for the little monkey-see-monkey-do-student-professor-buttkisser mikezaz - don't profane the name of Herrmann with your filthy university-scum lips. You - as a conventionally programmed academic drone - and John Cage - as a modernist phony who pulled a big joke on all of Europe and America for his entire life's work - are not worthy of existing on the same dimensional plane as Herrmann, a great composer whose every score I have studied for the last forty years - in contrast to John Cage your hero whose entire musical output no one with any self respect would even glance at. He is absolutely representative of the nadir of modernism - art with no soul, life or sincerity that is foisted off on people as a cynical joke.
Ok, I'm gonna commit piece of mind suicide for a couple of weeks and get in this conversation. Only because it's in my everyday documentation also..... I've just almost completed my Book on the subject. Because I'm an old fart in this business. And I've tasted all the spices of sounds publicly and professionally in all of the styles of music. Not just one or two. Damn I'm tired. But still ticking. Therefore any one that curses at any other will get the shaft first. Meaning they lost their mind.
http://web.me.com/robsnob/Site/Blank.html
We seem to be in a time of change. Pun intended. Yes change also means money in the pocket. As well as real dimensional Political change. We have the first black president. This came after a long fight of educating the deprived class of people, who have been shunned since the beginning of time. I couldn't have posted this post in a million years prior to this event. So this is ground breaking in the Academia, Political, Humanitarian, Scientific, Artistic, Conscientious fields. The long battle of dissidence, abstractionism, minimalism, cool, purple, Blue, abstractionism, Voicings, Decorations, Impressionism, sweets ..The Heart ! The revolting generation of revolution has capitulated finally. This is in-deed groundbreaking, historical, and puts tears to any one's eyes. We're in the technological time period also. Revelations. To any young born in these day's must seem surreal. Because of all the nonsense being played out as this shift of dimension takes hold or place. The elderly have witnessed these events incrementally and are aware. Most are remaining quiet, but this field being a part of music. I'm opening up as well as william, Paul and some of the others, whom have many years of experience in this filed. I respect such artist as Chuck Close. Most likely the best American Artist. Yale graduate. Has surpassed Jackson pollack. He said, this generation of change's main purpose was to create trouble, for the sake of change. Close himself has a binary abstractionists, classicist method all in one. His pictures are abstract close up and portrait standing back. This is significant of our times and in need and appointing in in this generation. And in the filed of music, its confronting and mathematical also. The human brain. Very mysterious. But it has a significant role in music, Conscience, Math, Government, Religion, Geometry, Poetry ... The binary issue at the conscience of a human being. The preservation of the human race !... We as humans still do not understand this programing but are playing a part in it. This is all we can do, until someone figures out the human brain. Now, finally.. Music... It appears there's also two forms of music at hand. Classical & Abstractionism. Lets just say, abstractionism is really Jazz, because that's what it really is after being mastered or correctly educated and learned by someone experienced. One of these forms of music has been created with the church and as far as I can tell for 234 years. Which is Classical. Or just the rules of music actually. The other has just been completed in the span of the formation of the US. Just as the civil rights movement is completed. These are not coincidents. The creation of the Constitution at 1776 is not a coincidence to the creation of classical music at 1776. The birth of George Washington at 1732 and the birth of Joseph Haydn at 1732 is no coincidence. They installed a geometric system for mankind's preservation. To be a music master one have to experience and master both. As the great composers did. And the modern Composers are. Be it Herbie Hancock or Chick Corea. One without the other is significant of our times. The propulsion in revolting for the abstract was a must to complete the conformity of this cycle and fulfill the primary use of this system. Now that it's fulfilled and complete, one has to go back and look at it all. To see the truth. Therefore, Abstractionism without rhythm can be both. Classical and Jazz. If you're in experiencing mode, meaning just tasting the sounds to understand. There is no other way but for time to pass by before you really understand the taste of the sounds with public reaction to it, if you play professionally. Meaning, the old lady's fork flew mysteriously out of her hand, or the gentleman chocked on a piece of food as you struck an abstract chord. Or sight read an abstract piece of music without rhythm. Anyone whom have played hours on in professionally paces himself and does not sight read. The music has to be memorized for adequate results. And notation is essential for orchestrative musicians. Or to study and learn. A piece of music without notation, is nothing. Concert pianist memorize the difficult long pieces for best result. If you play all the time, then you memorize the piece anyway. thats the point I'm trying to make here. ( Although I loved the cello pieces by the young composer boasting for cages revolutionary statements, great example of within these times. And i love music. But Others are just public individualists. ). This is what you get from those that are in the tasting stage of period on the internet whom look for a way out of hard work. By reassuring each other for an escape out of tonality. And catching the remainding wind at the brink of an abstractionist movement's closings or completion.. Rhythmic abstractionism performed correctly. Jazz, where is it ? It's gone. A hundred channels of television and no where. Classical where is it ? Almost the same. Had not been for the Orchestrational halls. It also would be completely gone. Classical music, or tonal music is the only type of music that builds up. Jazz is songwriting. Classical is Composition. I was lost about that when i was young. All these new gadgets, sounds and revolutions confused me. And add the money factor to it ? And now professors loosing their tenure's unless they conform to money. That's why I developed a method that made jazz composition also. As well as Classical tonal Improvisation acceptable. This is starting to take hold. At first everyone said this is wrong. Professors and the likes. But now, you see classical improvisation everywhere. I was the first to implement this. And at the end of the day, they meet somewhere in between, a full coarse balanced meal and dessert being the cool or hot sweets to catch that energy burst of creation with at the end. Or a Grand Structure painted, garnished, decorated, designed correctly. And with a conscience.. Significant of the times we live in also.. !
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I appreciate any other inputs in adding or educating me also in this continuos study of themes, tonality. And the binary preservation of the human race contribution by the Artists and music makers...
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@mikezaz_27157 said:
Paul, I still want to know where I posted before and why you remember me.
I was with a delegation of governors visiting an asylum for the hopelessly insane deep into Arkansas and we stumbled upon you and Trevor locked in a padded cell. You were both mumbling about the demise of homogenous v heterogenous music and how Hans Zimmer had perverted music in post 1985 movies.
While we were hugely impressed with your vocabulary it was felt it best to leave you there and after throwing you both some nuts, repaired to another part of the building.