@David Gosnell said:

if you're not into narrow minded ranting and flame wars - never click on a thread with the word 'Zimmer' in the subject.

Good One David ! ! !

@David Gosnell said:

if you're not into narrow minded ranting and flame wars - never click on a thread with the word 'Zimmer' in the subject.

Good One David ! ! !

 LOL!!  I love it actually!!

Brad

Hi Guys,

  This thread has lasted for awhile.  Interesting topic!  I've done some scoring for tv, and time was a BIG consideration.  So many film scores seem to have minimal orchestration, and that probably boils down to time and $ (when does it not?.)  What bothers me is the heavy emphasis on "chase scene" cues.  Many are tedious and formulaic.  The slower, more lyrical passages seem to give the film score guys a better chance to shine, and here I disagree a bit with William.  I think Hans Zimmer is quite capable in the lyricism department.  (His live CD, "Wings of a Film" is a good example of this.  Check it out.)  True, one has to weed through a lot of uninspired stuff, but I still think he is somewhat deserving of his popularity (especially some his earlier scores.)

  That said, I think some scores really run with minimal thematic-orchestration approach.  Some that come to mind--Hans Z (Beyond Rangoon, Crimson Tide) John Barry (Dances with Wolves, The Scarlet Letter) James Newton Howard (The Sixth Sense) and two from the infamous Mel Gibson's films (Braveheart-James Horner and We Were Soldiers by Nick Glennie-Smith.)  I just listened to the We Were Soldiers CD last night, after many years.  Simple themes, but nicely orchestrated and quite moving.  (Does anyone know what Nick Glennie-Smith is up to?  I haven't seen his name on any films for some time.)

  Lately I've been listening a lot to American composers William Schuman, Roy Harris and Samuel Barber.  Wish these guys were around to score some films today!  

                                                   Tom

Have a listen to a 'chase' scene done by Herrmann, Williams, Barry, Jarre and the like, and compare... As far as deadlines go, have a look at a YouTube documentary on Williams doing the score for the original Star Wars - before the age of computer neat-scoring programs and libraries - talking something about 8 weeks(!) for that score(!!!). As for the current state of affairs in lyrical/dramatic scoring, the less said the better (I have neither the time, nor the vocabulary to accurately articulate my feelings; the adjectives 'vile', 'uninspired', 'ineffective', 'meretricious', 'supremely incompetent', only begin to describe them).

@Errikos said:

As for the current state of affairs in lyrical/dramatic scoring, the less said the better (I have neither the time, nor the vocabulary to accurately articulate my feelings; the adjectives 'vile', 'uninspired', 'ineffective', 'meretricious', 'supremely incompetent', only begin to describe them).

I tend to think this way also. 

never mind though - I shouldn't advise people about anything.

@Tom23 said:

  Lately I've been listening a lot to American composers William Schuman                                                  

Tom

What about Walter Schuman?  [<:o)]

Filmscore music is a lot like 3 minute popular music. It's a done genre. Why do you think everyone complains that pop music is nothing like it was in the 60's and even the 70's? Because the genre has been done to death. Same as film music. You gents don't really think there's going to be anymore genuinely original pop or film music do you? Just because a genre is created through historic knowledge and recreation of all that comes before, it definitely doesn't mean it's a necessary requisite that it's going to keep going and constantly be original and interesting.

Pop music and filmscore are almost always a rehash today. Why - because the fucking films are!!!!!  With Hans, I already said he's basically a pop/rocker that got into filmscoring. Don't blame Hans - blame the idiot directors today. These are the people that make the fucking films in the first place. These people have no inkling about film making a lot of the time. They bow to CGI and anything thats easy with regard to entertainment for the low IQ. I keep telling you - that's where the money is. This business about the last Batman film FFS - how many people really remember a film like that 20 minutes later? It's technically well-made crap for people living in an intellectual wilderness.

Good day!

Interesting and long discussion. I did not read every post in detail though...

I'm not a pro-composer, but I was wondering what you guys think about Zimmer's scores for Da Vinci Code and Angels & Demons?

I quite liked those two.

Oh sure...., I wonder why it never occurs to Williams to base a whole soundtrack on the basest arpeggiator passage (alla Da Vinci Code, the Dark Knight, etc.). Ah, I keep forgetting that he actually has technique to make the music move forward and doesn't need the computer to do it for him...

If all I can do is put my hands on the keyboard and press some white-note chords every few seconds and have no inkling of how to drive musical material forward, thank Heavens for the arpeggiator... It sure makes the Alberti bass look sophisticated but what can I do? I studied composition under a DJ instead of going to university. Instead of laying down a drum beat so I can compose a song over it, I lay strings (sorry, I tell the computer to lay down strings), and then improvise my puerile harmonic language over them, while the football team of orchestrators await my asinine three-track masterwork patiently in their cubicles...

Two million dollars please...

@Jef de Corte said:

Interesting and long discussion. I did not read every post in detail though...

I'm not a pro-composer, but I was wondering what you guys think about Zimmer's scores for Da Vinci Code and Angels & Demons?

I quite liked those two.

Listen to the new theme tune from Pillars of the Earth.  A new TV series written by a fucking hack and after 10 minutes of it I put myself up for being 'put to death' as more preferable than having another 1 hour and 50 minutes of shyte.

Here's the theme. Go figure.

"Pillars of Earth" soundtrack is from Trevor Morris, who worked under Zimmer.

I didn't see or hear it, but I like his Tudors soundtracks though...

@PaulR said:

Why did you find it necessary to share this with us Paul?... I'm surprised you lasted 10'; I pressed 'back-arrow' after 10". Another reminder of the logarithmic rate by which film music is being flushed down the public toilet... This track can be found at any given composter's personal website's demo-reel. I am increasingly confounded by how these people get hired in the first place.

@Jef de Corte said:

"Pillars of Earth" soundtrack is from Trevor Morris, who worked under Zimmer.

Well Gee......who would have guessed that?[:|]

Years ago it was bam/bambambambam/babababambambam/bam/babababam/babababam etcetc

Now it's chuggachuggachuggachugga ect with the strings. I don't blame Hans for that. He probably invented it. It's the other bastards that worry me. The minute I heard that at the front end of that TV serial, coupled with crap CGI and then noticed Ridley Scott and his brother (who can't direct shyte btw) had produced this, I knew that instead of putting it on prime time i.e. 9.00 pm - it should have been on children's hour. TV is dead in the water in this country today. There is no room for originality anymore because you have to pander to imbeciles.

never mind

You will probably find me silly then, but I like his work... :-)

In my opinion the Tudors score works perfectly with the series and they are a joy to listen to as a standalone.

Well Errikos, if "vile, uninspired, ineffective, meritricious, supremely incompetent" "only begin to" articulate your feelings towards the current scoring state of affairs, I imagine you've got quite an invective grab bag for when you really get rolling.

Trevor, you must understand that this was not, unlike your particular brand of posting, a personal attack in anyway on you. Congratulations Trevor on EVEN getting the gig. I fully understand that a producer may well say to you - let's sound like this or that - because it's a tried and tested method.

But Trevor, you surely can't have such little self esteem and low confidence in your ability to write music that you feel it necessary to single out an insignificant musician on a forum, such as myself.

I play Baroque harpsichord music that I studied at The Royal College of Music back in 1970. Would you like to hear me play some? Really Trevor, do try to calm down.

 What blows me away.. and I think Trevor would agree... is that people forget that THIS IS A BUSINESS!!!!  You have to do what sells... and what the director wants!

You don't see stores selling the same clothes from back in the 1850's.  Why? because things evolve... things change.  Regardless of whether you like it or not. 

Face it... every movie does not require the "Star Wars" soundtrack. And just as is everything else in pop culture... stay with the times or fail to be relevant.  Take for example Pop radio as we know it. I don't hear Jimmy Hendricks being played on the top 40 anymore.  Even though he is one of the greatest guitar players of all time in the sense of pioneering. 

People have the right to be opinionated, but sometimes it is excessive as with this thread IMO.  Remember, this is a business. In business, the number one goal is to turn a profit.  In order to do so...  Get over it and get with the times!! :)

All said in love!

@Another User said:

A new TV series written by a fucking hack

Paul, you made it personal. Trevor has every right to rip you to shreds. You crossed a line.

Expect that these forums are visited by all the guys that you think you are better than. Now, what if you were in a room with all of us -- would your language change if we were sitting opposite you at a conference table? If not, then you deserve to get whatever is coming your way.

Trevor -- just tell Paul to fuck off and please stay around -- we need more working pros hanging out to make our tools better.

I fully agree with Jeremy.

The music of Trevor deserves far better than this...