Well there's two issues here Christian: One is the original intent of Appassionata which I believe was violins only. Then came all four string groups... then came more articulations per string group then they intended. So if VSL skipped somewhere, they skipped in the right place: the basses. Obviously legato missing in any of the upper strings would have been too much. The other issue is whether the entire Appas collection should have more articulations added. I think it would be a big seller to have a ton of Appass strings articulations.

Note: The Appass basses actually sound a lot like the old Miroslavs (which is a good thing.) I never missed having legato with those.

@dpcon said:

Well there's two issues here Christian: One is the original intent of Appassionata which I believe was violins only. Then came all four string groups... then came more articulations per string group then they intended. So if VSL skipped somewhere, they skipped in the right place: the basses. Obviously legato missing in any of the upper strings would have been too much. The other issue is whether the entire Appas collection should have more articulations added. I think it would be a big seller to have a ton of Appass strings articulations.

Note: The Appass basses actually sound a lot like the old Miroslavs (which is a good thing.) I never missed having legato with those.

This is marketing !!!

if you have all the articulations in the Appassionata, you will not buy Chamber String I and II and Orchestral String I and II

Best

Cyril

@Cyril said:

This is marketing !!!

if you have all the articulations in the Appassionata, you will not buy Chamber String I and II and Orchestral String I and II

Best

Cyril

Not at all. They have very different sounds.

DG

 True... But I think it's safe to assume that if App. Strings were as deeply samples as the Orch strings, that they would take pretty much all the sales (which may already be the case). I guess that App string collection sells better as a single collection than the orch strings 1+2.

@Christian Marcussen said:

 True... But I think it's safe to assume that if App. Strings were as deeply samples as the Orch strings, that they would take pretty much all the sales (which may already be the case). I guess that App string collection sells better as a single collection than the orch strings 1+2.

 Indeed. But the quality of sound matters. The point is, that if they were sampled as deeply and priced the same way, I think I know how that would go [:)]

Re: legato basses. Yes of course they can play legato. But a lot of what people hear is actually cellos playing legato. Basses you really would not notice it much even if they played large phrases legato. Go and stand behind a bass section whenever you get the chance (i did recently) and watch and hear what mostly happens - you'll be surprised.

I am personally much more disappointed at the lack of performance repetition patches. The only Perf rep patches in the Basses are portamento. They dont even have staccato, yet alone spiccato or any "harsh" articulations. I personally would use these patches much more than legato, and am surprised they are not included, as one would think using the basses to "keep a pulse" would be standard writing, and make the need for multiple RR patches, at least more than the 2 alternations found in the normal patches, more apparent. 

Of course none of these issues are deal breakers. We all will find ways around the limitations of the tools we use, so thats not the argument. The point is that these are limitations could, and perhaps should not have existed in the first place. 

>I think that the crux of the matter is that the Appassionata Strings is a smaller Collection than some of the others. Therefore some things have to be left out. It is a matter of opinion as to whether or not VSL made the right decisions.

I was even wondering if the Appassionata where not made outside of VSL, as they are very strange "key ranges" and "key ranges" are depending of the articulation

Best

Cyril

For the most part it's not a problem - but other instruments have some kind of range limit on some articulations. Epic Horns Legato for instance has a smaller range than its Staccs.  

@Cyril said:

[...] I was even wondering if the Appassionata where not made outside of VSL, as they are very strange "key ranges" and "key ranges" are depending of the articulation [...]

Hi Dietz and Christian,

I am not speaking of conspiration theories [:O]

As the Appassionata does not look to meet the high level of other VSL product I was wondering if you did not subcontracted it !

I have wrote a detailed mail about the curiosity of the key ranges of this product, it will be lovely if, for the beauty of the thing, you could arrange this.

It is not the legato but also other articulation that does not have the same keyranges

I have also send a mail before about the lack of articulation in the Bass and about articulations been available for the Appas. Violin and not for Appas. Viola and Appas. Cello

The Appassionata is a very good library, I love it ;  I just think it's a pity that you encouter those little problems, and as you see I am not the only one making this remark.

May be you could spend a little time on it so it is as perfect as other VSL products

Best

Cyril

-----------------------------

Part of the mail I send :

I did a quick comparaison, not all matrix and articulations have been tested.

Appassionata Viola :

VA-14 Staccato, Sfz are ending on A

VA-14 Detache, pizz and tremolo are ending on D

VA-14 Sus-vib is ending on G

Appassionata Violin :

VI 20-Staccato, Detache, pizz end on D#

VI 20- Sus vib, sfz ends on A

VI-20- Tremolo ends on G

VI-20- perfs legato ends on D

Appassionata Cello

VC 12-Staccato, Detache, pizz, Sus vib, sfz, Tremolo ends on A#

The Perf-legato are ending on E

Appassionata Bass

DB 10-Staccato, Detache, pizz, Sus vib, sfz, Tremolo are ending  on C

 Noooooooooooooooooooooooo..........................

It's like Groundhog Day.  [:S]

DG

Appassionata basses are supplemental, not a complete replacement to all the other string ensembles and articulations.  So not every single possible articulation was done.  Most of the time legato is not as necessary on bass parts in a large orchestra (which is where you would use this size ensemble) as it is with violins, violas or cellos.  It will probably be added at some time, or maybe not.  Because you can use the other basses for legato soli. 

 I'm going to buy Appassionata and Appassionata Extended...  No legato basses?  [:O]

It's hard to understand,  really...

 I have SE +,  so,  i have the legato basses (with only 2 velocity layers,  but it's better than nothing)...   But orchestral have not

the Appassionata sound.  The sound will not be gorgeous as the appassionata collection,  i will have to tweak it a lot.  [8o|]