Vienna Symphonic Library Forum
Forum Statistics

183,324 users have contributed to 42,293 threads and 255,050 posts.

In the past 24 hours, we have 4 new thread(s), 15 new post(s) and 49 new user(s).

  1. Home
  2. Orchestration & Composition
  3. Your Music
  4. My Take on the Star Trek Original Theme
  • M
    M
    last edited
    last edited

    @PaulR said:

    You need to reach out for your dark side Mike - and get Herrmann into your life. :)))
     

    You assume I don't have a life-long love of Hermann's work; that I don't listen daily - almost obsessively - to Hermann film scores.  And you know what they say about assumptions 😊 😊  

    Truth is, some day I'm going to get a chance to use all the cluster tricks I've learned and then you'll be sorry.  😊

    By the way, at a concert dedicated to Williams and Hermann film music (conducted by Williams and hosted by Spielberg and Scorcese), Hermann's stuff sounded better live than Williams' did.  Just an interesting little tidbit there...

    _Mike

  • M
    M
    last edited
    last edited

    @cug said:

    Care to share any more details?  Was it VSL?  Which sets?  Reverb, etc.  Sounds quite real.
     

    Thanks, Carlos; Thanks Jay...

    Instrument-wise, honestly, it would take forever to sort it all out - you can't tell just by looking at the instrument names (at least I can't) which library they come from, but I can tell you the strings are all Sonic Implants.  Brass and Woodwinds are a combination of VSL, SI, and SAM stuff.  Brass looks mostly like SAM and SI, and Percussion is a lot of SAM and True Strike, with some LOP and VSL thrown in from time to time.  I have 5 Gigastudio PC's absolutely packed to the gills.  I have some thread on here from probably a couple years ago when I was just staggeringly frustrated with the sound, and I've basically tweaked it to some degree every day since.  TONS of custom patches in there, too...  almost no stock instrument performed the way I wanted it to for one reason or another.  

    The Giga's all feed digitally into a couple of 192 interfaces for my Pro Tools rig.  Digital Performer and Pro Tools run live at the same time on my Mac - Pro Tools just stays in monitor mode all the time in the background while I work.  When the sequence is ready, I just kick Pro Tools into record, pop back into DP and start the sequence.  Works flawlessly; I've never had a hiccup or crash.

    I can't stress enough how long it took to get those profiles to work together - I find the settings extremely sensitive, and I still tweak things from time to time. Some of them use stage positioning, others not.  Just depends on the sound.  And in all cases, each section has an additional EQ plug-in on it, with some seriously wacky and extreme curves, which go a long way towards helping place things together in the "room."  Though interestingly, each of the sections sounds good on its own.  I'm not really sure how I got all this to work, beyond some insane number of hours of experimentation.

    The Altiverbs provide the room, and then like a real recording, there is an outboard reverb on the whole thing, which is handled by another plug-in: a modeled Lexicon 300.  I dial that up or down globally depending on the cue.  I watched Shawn Murphy do this many times, so I just tried that.

    I think, overall, my group works well together, but I also think it lacks the real presence and air that is possible, and that I've heard from other people in small doses, but never as a whole group.  An honestly, I don't care enough to re-do the whole thing anyway.  As mock-ups, these seem to get the job done. 

    Thanks again for such kind words!

    Best,

    _Mike

  • P
    P
    last edited
    last edited

    @mverta said:

     

     

    You assume I don't have a life-long love of Hermann's work; that I don't listen daily - almost obsessively - to Hermann film scores.  And you know what they say about assumptions 😊 😊  

     

    Truth is, some day I'm going to get a chance to use all the cluster tricks I've learned and then you'll be sorry.  😊

     

    By the way, at a concert dedicated to Williams and Hermann film music (conducted by Williams and hosted by Spielberg and Scorcese), Hermann's stuff sounded better live than Williams' did.  Just an interesting little tidbit there...

     

    _Mike

     

     



    Heheh - in that case I'm hoping to become your biggest fan. Herrmann couldn't do the Williams thing and visa versa - it's just the way the score cards fall. These guys know their strengths - that's why they're the best in the business.

    Oh Yes - I'll be sorry alright. Clusters - we had some fun recently with clusters and scoring them out for an orchestra in the USA. The loudness of them is frightening when you're not ready for it. But Herrmann was a bit more than clusters of course.

    I would very much like to hear you do a Herrmann style piece Mike - say about 30 seconds to a minute long - that would be a lot of fun. In fact, VSL should do a competition asking for specific styles just for the hell of it. Short pieces so it's not too taxing on the time element.
  • G
    G
    Although I'd have my own curiosity on this and it can be something fun, this isn't the healthiest to do music to me, Hermann has been done by Hermann and Williams by Williams. I'd rather hear Mike do Mike, a more interesting and bigger challenge.
  • H
    H
    WoW! That has to be one of the most realistic renderings I've heard of sample libraries. It's terrific orchestration no doubt .. but the room sound is what's selling it for me. I wouldn't know where to begin with such arrangements :P, perhaps it just takes time. Damned nice job .. can I play this on the VSL podcast show?
  • H
    H
    last edited
    last edited

    @mverta said:

    I have 6 instances of Altiverb running, one for each section, with an additional for Percussion. My first instinct was to use the same profile room for each section but time and time again I found that mixing different profiles seemed to yield results more like what I had on live sessions.  Currently, my Woodwinds use the Trackdown Scoring Stage, my Horns and Brass use the Brugge Concertgebouw, one of my Percussion uses the Sydney Opera house, and one of them uses Trackdown.

     

    Which IR's are you using on the string sections. And an you post pics of your Altiverb settings .. I'd love to try these out. . TODD -AO is a nice room but I'm having trouble getting it to sound lke a nice good room .. can get it to sound real .. but not good real :P
  • M
    M

    Nothing special, really...

    [img]http://www.mikeverta.com/Posts/Strings_Verb.png[/img]
  • H
    H
    Oooh . please post them all :P Thanks for this one though
  • M
    M

    I can post them, but you have to understand that my room and settings choices are dependent upon a lot of things, most importantly the fact that I use different libraries, with different ambiences inherently in the recordings.  I can't use the same room on everything, because not every instrument comes out of the giga with the same default "air" around it; they're not pure, dry samples. I have to compensate for each library's natural quality in various ways to put them all in the same space. So using my settings will not replicate my sound unless you happen to choose the identical instruments, which is highly unlikely, especially given how many blends and custom patches I use.

    _Mike

  • H
    H
    Hmm fair point. Well I use a blend of EW, VSL (Legacy) VSL VI, SAM and EXS Instruments. Though I prefer using VSL for everything since it works very well for me .. the only problem I have is that the Special edition has some articulation limitations (HAve to buy the big library to solve that :P), and so I use the Legacy stuff and EW library to make up for the short fall. . Anyways, perhaps then it would be interesting to hear about how you route your reverb. For instance do you use a send / return system on Pre fade, or post fade. YOu mentioned 6 reverbs .. how are they used .. is that 3 depths layers with left and right or some other kind of layering. Sorry to be so curious but you have a terrific sound and I'd love to get a similar size and depth to my own recordings. (Role on MIR).
  • M
    M

    Here, I just banged on each section of the orchestra, and let each one tail out so you can hear the room/reverb/placement if you want to try and match it.

    [url=http://www.mikeverta.com/Posts/Orchestra_Test.mp3]Orchestra Test[/url]

    _Mike

  • S
    S

    Incredible work. The brass is especially great. Didn't you post "Ewok Battle" a while back? 

    Can you talk about how you get the runs using SI string samples? I've never been able to get that. Are you just using the staccatos? 

    Thanks for the mix tips, you have a very nice soundscape there. 
  • M
    M

    I posted the Ewok Battle a while, while, while ago, yes.  I was extremely unhappy with the sound I was getting, and set about starting over after that.

    For runs, I never use staccatos, I use legato violins (3 layers with MW control, AA) and sometimes layered with Legato AA R.

    They're usually carefully measured runs, so I'll often play them in in step mode.  

    Thanks for the kind words!

    _Mike
  • A
    A

    Sounds Great !!!
  • S
    S
    Mike, This is a great arrangement. I understand being inspired by Goldsmith/Williams and the like, but for me you've also put a very unique stamp on this theme. It makes me want to hear more of your original material. Colin
  • A
    A

    All I say is wow!!! What a great soundscape.

    Thanks for all the insight and explanation.

    Actually you made me review my template again!! ;)
  • S
    S
    Mike...this is a great mock-up...... Great achievement. It just goes to show how working a template over time (years) is the only way to get there...very REAL. Question. Your "master-verb": The fake one you add, after the room........Which preset on Lexi 300? Are the er's turned OFF on this verb? Do you exxagerate the pre-delay so it doe s not get in the way of the room ER's?......How long is that taIl from the 300? thanx for sharing and "setting the bar" ;-) best, SvK
  • M
    M

    I use a custom patch, which was just a tweak of the default, actually.  It's a 3-second reverb with some of the lows and low-mids rolled back so it doesn't get muddy.  I kill the pre-delay, because that just adds more "room" and I've already got that covered.  This reverb is just for the "wet."  There are differing levels of send to the master verb per section via an aux bus.

    Thanks for the kind words, guys.  I'm truly glad you enjoy the work!

    _Mike

  • R
    R

    Great thread and awesome realism on this mock-up Mike.   SvK - I have horsed around with this using my Wizoo w2 (HDIR Concert) ir on a seperate FX bus.   I seem to get pretty good results using about a 50-60 predelay to get out of the way of the beautiful Todd AO room ( I know you use as well).

    I haven't yet worked on the lows and mid-lows on the w2 'master overall verb' but I think it a good idea and would be applicable on most material.   My gut is saying the 225-300 range is going to need some cut.  I'll try to report back what works here.

    Rob 
  • R
    R

    Mike and SvK - I just ran an experiment with the piece I wrote for the VSL brass library last year - using this concept of a 'master verb' over the AV6 Todd AO room.   I must say I really like it.   I also used the 'wide' mics and think that gives some nice space around the samples.

    BTW - I rolled off the low and mids on the 'master bus' verb and it reduces the mud quite a bit.  This of course will be material dependent but I am liking the results.   I think I could reduce these freqs and tad more on the master verb and still be good - perhaps better.   There is plenty of 'warmth' coming from the Todd AO buses. 

    What do you think?

    http://www.robelliottmusic.com/mp3s/Americana/Journey%20to%20Greatness%20(Joseph's%20Theme)_wide%20mics.mp3

    Rob