I Have to agree with Paul and Mobius.. I also would like to see it extended to a six month period also. Since I am still saving to purchase the whole string package. Joseph

The following is taken directly from the Ilio (U.S. distributor of VSL products) newsletter of July 17, 2007:

"PRO EDITION & HORIZON SERIES
Final Days Close-Out Sale through September 15, 2007

Dear ILIO Subscriber,

While Vienna Symphonic Library’s award-winning Vienna Instruments Collections continue to expand their influence on modern music production, the time has come to say goodbye to their original product lines — the PRO EDITION and HORIZON SERIES sample libraries.

But rather than simply pull these great products off the shelves, we celebrate their legacy by offering them at significantly reduced prices!

This is your last chance! Get these great libraries now, while supplies last. What’s more, your purchase qualifies you for fantastic upgrade possibilities to the Vienna Instruments Collections!" (emphasis mine)

Then, the Ilio newsletter of September 5. 2007 stated the following:

"ONLY 10 DAYS LEFT TO SAVE BIG ON VIENNA SYMPHONIC LIBRARY!
Final Days Close-Out Sale ends next Saturday, September 15, 2007

Dear ILIO Subscriber,

We're running low on quantities of Pro Edition and Horizon Series sample libraries for EXS24, Gigastudio, Kontakt and HALion. So now is the time to take advantage of this last opportunity to save big, before they're gone!

While Vienna Symphonic Library’s award-winning Vienna Instruments Collections continue to expand their influence on modern music production, the time has come to say goodbye to their original product lines — the PRO EDITION and HORIZON SERIES sample libraries.

But rather than simply pull these great products off the shelves, we celebrate their legacy by offering them at significantly reduced prices!

This is your last chance! Get these great libraries now, while supplies last. What’s more, your purchase qualifies you for fantastic upgrade possibilities to the Extended Libraries of the Vienna Instruments Collections! In fact, you may save money by purchasing a Horizon or Pro Edition product now and then upgrading to a Vienna Instruments Extended Library later, as opposed to buying only the Vienna Instruments Full Library." (emphaisis mine)

Finally, the Ilio newsletter of November 27, 2007 stated the following:

"Vienna Symphonic Library Sample Libraries are 30% off!

But that's not all! We still have a limited quantity of Vienna Symphonic Library sample libraries on hand, including the Pro Edition and Horizon Series, and are discounting them 30% (while supplies last). These libraries will load into EXS24, HALion, Kontakt and Giga. Talk to one of our helpful sales reps to find out what's available.

To take advantage of this rare offer, simply shop our website at www.ilio.com, or call us at
(800) 747-4546."

So, it was only nine months ago that VSL was encouraging people to purchase the PRO Edition and Horizon series by stating that doing so would qualify them for "fantastic upgrade possibilities to the Vienna Instruments Collections!" - - and it has been only seven months since the Pro Edition and Horizon series officially ceased to be offered for sale with the idea that the purchaser would be qualified for "fantastic upgrade possibilities" and that, furthermore, the purchaser might "save money" - - and only 5 months since the U.S. distributor stopped promoting the sale of these libraries.

In light of these promotions, both in terms of their substance and their fairly recent date,  is it any wonder to anyone that many perceive VSL's new policy as a breach of promise?

In the course of this thread there have been made some very good arguments towards both why VSL have acted against there customers and why they should atleast show us the courtesy of reconsidering the total abolishement of the VIP policy.

And I sincerly hope this won't be silenced to death, as these things often end up when the small people is up against the big company.

VSL, you are about to destroy the much appriciated bond between yourselves and your customers. I think by now there should be absolutly no doubt about how the VIP policy has been percived by your customers. Also when knowing, and reading, how the VIP policy has been used in markeding the VSL products, there should be little or any doubt on which purpose this policy had from VSL's standpoint.

Knowing this I urge everyone, affected by this or not, state your opinion in this thread. This course of action from VSL, will also have consequences for the future. If VSL really pushes this through and drops the VIP paths for First/Pro/Horizon, then we know never again to trust the VIP policy, atleast for no longer than 90 days at a time. If the VSL team refuses to budge on the deadline or decides to give us the blind eye, we know what to expect in any similar future situation. In that cas no one will be the winner. We lose. VSL lose.

Although there have been similar situations in the past with unexpected turns regarding the VIP paths, this in my opinion is by far the most severe. Both for us, the customers, and for the VSL company.

So VSL, please, seeing theses reactions surly has to mean something to you. And please don't push the "blame" on SE customers demanding new upgrade paths. It just won't do. Atleast there should not be any doubt that this deadline is to short. Although you have achived great things through your businessness endevours, do not forget; in the end it's the customers that made it possible for you to reach this far.

I don't belive that this company, with it's talented, helpfull and spirited employees, which on a daily basis communicate with it's customers through the forums and thus removing the distances between us. I do not believe you want to alienate so many by taking this drastic "corporate" move. How can it really be worth it? Or is it something more to this which I totaly fail to see? 

Kind regards

Tom-Erlend Malm

@Marsdy said:

Pretty annoyed is an understatement. I feel well and truly ripped off and I wish I'd never invested money in this disreputable company. ..."users will never be expected to pay for the same sample twice"..... a misquote I'm sure but that was the promise. This ISN'T a misquote, it's from the VSL Demo Cube brochure of 2002 which I have in my hand: "VIP the Vienna Innovation Program Become a charter member of VIP as the Vienna Symphonic Library gradually expands to 1.5 million samples. Upgrade to bigger collections on hard disk at affordable prices. Cross-grade to future software platforms and technologies and feel safe in the knowledge that your investment in the future of orchestral music production will last a lifetime." "Last a lifetime" ? With hindsight, it appears this claim is nothing short of a bare faced lie.

I started to laugh when I read those quotes. That is until the reality of the situation came crashing back into my mind! It is indeed no laughing matter. How absurd and ironic is that?! The very text from VSL's own publication has now become a cruel joke.

I'm happy that someone found the exact verbiage...the actual words that created the expectation of a "lifetime" upgrade path. This combined with the recent marketing of discontinued Pro Edition and Horizon products with the promise of an upgrade path (with NO mention of an expiration date), means I'll be paying VERY close attention to how VSL responds to customer reaction to this sudden and ill-advised change of policy.

Fred Story

Regarding all requests for a longer upgrade period:

on July 15th the new upgrade price calculating system will be activated, so we can't check automatically the old upgrade prices after July 15th.

I always find these threads somewhat amusing.  Don't get me wrong, I understand the perspective of those wanting to get the most out of their "investment".

But, this situation is really no different than when they came out with the Special Edition.  Users who bought the full VI set at the time felt cheated because there was now a very decent alternative at 1/10 the price than what they paid.  So the users bitched and moaned about it.  

It's no different than when with the original pro edition, there was a claim it was to be  24-bit but when it shipped it was only 16-bit.  Only later  the same samples at 24-bit packaged in a new form.  Yes there were discounts, but anyone who followed this path still ponied up a lot.  So people bitched and moaned about it. 

Or the time when there was a christmas sale and everyone hurried up and bought what they thought was a good deal only to find out that a new product was just around the corner so they had to buy those samples yet again.  And they bitched and moaned about it.

All the bitching and moaning has paid off much of the time.  I suspect they know it's coming and so will always have a few bones to throw to keep people happy.  And I suspect there will be a few bones here.  Or maybe a six month plan was the plan all along and the three month announcement was to get everyone used to the idea with the six month plan being the bone.  They have to at least create the appearance that they are listening to their customers.  We'll see. 

Anyway, let's all just realize that these guys have a continually growing set of samples that they want to sell.  It's an asset, but a wasting one, unless they find new ways to sell the same thing over and over again.  They realize their best next customer is an existing customer.  So the plan is to come up with ways to make their customers buy the same product in a different form over and over and over again.  They come out with new bit sizes (based on the same original samples).  They come out with different bundles of instruments (never the same) but constituting many of the same samples that exist in other bundles.  

The product is good -- it's very good, but it's expensive.  Unless you're willing to pony up a couple thousand (pick your favorite currency) each and every year, then you should just sit by and watch, or find a more reasonable alternative (there are many).  Or you can bitch and moan with the hope that the bone you get for doing so will placate you for yet another round until next time.

My two cents. I have no illusions that those of us who buy these products won't pay for them many times over. 

Edit:  Seems like the 6-month bone got thrown while I was creating this post.  How convenient! 

You know, I'm happy to have another 3 months, so I don't want to look a gift horse in the mouth. (I just hope we don't go over budget on our studio relocation, preventing me from doing the upgrade anyway.) And I wouldn't even bother to write a post-mortem to the announcement except for my love of VSL's products, and what I perceive as their genuine commitment to serve composers and musicians like myself.

But here's some tough love, guys...you need some PR help in these matters! First, it's hard to imagine that you didn't anticipate backlash from such an announcement and take steps to soften the blow. And second, even when you give a little by extending the deadline, the tone seems abrupt. There certainly appears to be little effort to explain the inconsistencies between your past marketing materials and this sudden change in policy. To me, there's not a lot of ambiguity in the word "Lifetime". ("Bitching and moaning" accusations notwithstanding.)

Love is a two way street, you know.

Fred Story

I agree with pretty much everything said in dbudde's post (basically except the release of SE annoying the Cube owners - it is not the same situation as no pledge was made to them that there would not be a budget package of the library released (I bought one myself), to compare with the "never pay twice for the same sample etc." VIP policy [VIP = Very Immaterial Patron]; after all the Horizon series already were offered along with the Cube if not before it).

Probably true (but again benefit of the doubt should always be extended in my view) also that the six-months period was going to be offered anyway but since the same uproar would have ensued it is hereby "bone-thrown" as an improved deal to the outrageous three-month one. The reason I am adding this post I am afraid is to reiterate a grave concern of mine (for the last time in this discussion) since it chimes with the general business-practice put forward here by DBUDDE and because I believe it is important - forgive the insistence please. That is:

If we all pay ±€5400 to upgrade now to a two year old technology, will you ask of us another ±€5400 by Christmas for the next upgrade to another CUBE, and will it be an ultimatum VIP policy again, namely that we will lose our recently acquired upgrade if we haven't taken the opportunity until, say March, and then it will cost ±€9200? All up ±€20000 for the same samples with different engines in four-five years? Hypothetically speaking...

Best wishes,

Errikos 

I don't think it's impossible for VSL to keep the legacy upgrade path in addition to implementing the new one, but the number of upgrade combinations increases to a point where it may be too complicated to do so.

One of the reasons I purchased the Pro Edition was VSL's generous upgrade policy.  I was upset when the Vienna Instruments were released so soon after I purchased the Pro Edition, but what helped ease the frustration was knowing that I could upgrade at any time.  If you take away the legacy upgrade path, I may never buy another VSL product or recommend them to other people.

If there is a deadline on an upgrade you can be certain there is a new product right around the corner.

Just my opinion. 

Although it does absolutely not affect me, I'm still very dissappointed to read, that those old discount-pathes are cancelled.

I mean: You gave a promise and now you are going to break it for a reason you still didn't mentioned (sorry, but "it's not possible" is really a way to lame ... you can't expect anyone here to buy that).

I really don't get it ...

Why are you going to destroy the sympathy I and probably most other VSL users have to your company ?

Come on ... stay on the light side of the force ...

Sorry vsl but :

for the near future

there is also Garitan with GOS 2 and P.Sidlaczek with samplemodeling.

Seeing the last adverts for the now discountinued sample libraries, advertising the VIP program, really aggravates me! As stated in one of the above postes; this was still happening towards the end of 2007!

Those unfortunate enough to jump at this possibility, buying the complete Pro Edition only to find out 8 months later that their upgrade possibilies will be gone within 3 (6) months if they aren't willing to "invest" an even larger amount of money right away. Thats ALOT of money put into your product partly based on the fact that you would be able to upgrade to future products with a discounted price.

The most outrageous about all this becomes apparent when you compare the VIP program with other software (alot more affordable I might add) which keeps unannounced upgrade paths open for several years, through several different version releases. But VSL actually went out and advertised the upgrade possibilies, it has been used as a specific reason to invest money in their respective products.

And now; the upgrade paths will be removed...there won't be any. The advertised statement is not kept, it's not modified, it just ceases to exist.

Well...atleast there is some progress. Six is better than three months. Thanks extended to the VSL company.

But is it good good enough? Considering some of the theories put forward by other posters; if there's to be another Cube or some new technology on the way, and this is a step to exclude some users from possible new upgrade paths it will be even worse, as this is a such a u-turn comparted to what has always been advertised. Although this would be pure speculation...I hope.

Tom-Erlend Malm

I am a Horizon user and have been seriously considering upgrading to the complete VI Cube. However, I'm very concerned as to whether this is a wise choice at this time as I witness the dirge of cries from previous VSL users who are about to loose their upgrade paths. I am interested in a long-term "license" investment where there will be continued support and upgrade paths without a "time gun" held to my head. I would like to make the choice of when to purchase and when to upgrade myself rather than being forced with an upgrade ultimatum that would result in a significant loss for me (or lost opportunity to carry on in the investment I have made thus far). With a policy of time-limited upgrade paths and sudden changes, how can the company gain the lasting support and trust of its user base? And without this continued support, how would the company be able to support my investment? And with a "sample-locked" dongle-based product, the well-being of the company is extremely important to me. Might it be wiser for me to invest in a smaller product such as the SE given the instability or possible changes this situation forebodes?

Please VSL, with such little time left now for me to make financial arrangements and reach a decision (prices are going up 10% in the US in 3 weeks), tell me how my investment will be secure in the future or I will have serious reservations about investing in the full VI Cube at this time. Offering users only 3-month extension (still with impending price increase in 3 weeks) doesn't seem like a serious solution as you are still cutting many off and it doesn't address the issue of trust, credibility, and my future investment. Plus, retailer might be concerned as well as I have no time to purchase from them, install, and reach the deadline before prices of extended libs go up - so I have no choice really but to purchase directly from you (even though retailers off me a cheaper solution). Certainly what you have created so far is a magnificent world-class product, and possibly with the exception of EvanEvans, I think everyone else might agree. However, with a policy of pulling the upgrade rug from such an important and large group of current users, how will VSL continue to grow and flourish? Are more and more expensive product sustainable? Are cheaper products around the corner that might undermine a current investment? Anyone with opinions or suggestions on making this upgrade investment please chime in as I'm suddenly seriously concerned as to what my best course of action is given this disturbing turn of events.

Deeply concerned,

Gregory D. Moore

Hi All

Just grabbing the end of this thread having not had chance to read everyone's comments... but... I just wanted to say something.. (I'm sorry

if someone else has said this!)

I'm lucky... I (like many on here) make a good living writing music and have felt that for the last few years VSL has been a great help in this.

I was an early user and am lucky enough to be able to upgrade all along and currently own everything that VSL make... all of which is used daily

and all of which is universally amazing in it's quality.

But.... For someone who spent the £2500 (or whatever it was at the time.. whatever, it was a LOT of money for me then!) to be told that if my circumstances hadn't changed, and that I HADN'T been able to upgrade yet that my right to do so at a reasonable rate was being determined by people spending £300 of £400 on a library that it was stated from day one would hold no upgrade path... I would be furious! Surely some respect for early users is due. When I bought into this noone had a clue who VSL were, how successful they would be come, and what their libraries were like to use. We all lept in with a lot of trust and faith.

Anyone that CAN afford to update to VI.. do it.. as soon as you can... they really ARE amazing. As I said, luckily this announcement hasn't affected me but I do feel that the reasons given don't tally up in my head.

Just my opinion

Cheers

Ty Unwin

 The number and intensity of comments on this thread are evidence of how problematic VSL's change of policy is. As I have said several times in earlier posts, this policy change does not affect me personally. I never purchased the First or Pro Edition - - I have licenses for the standard part of the Symphonic Cube, the Bösendorfer, and the complete (standard and extended) solo string library. So, however I might question the wisdom of this decision, I have no personal stake in the outcome.

My attitude towards the folks at VSL is that of a friend. I am deeply respectful of the quality, intellectual brilliance and commitment to excellence that VSL's products demonstrate.  If I am critical of VSL's recent policy decision, my criticism is that of a friend suggesting to his friend that an announced course of action may not be in my friend's long-term interest.

That said, one has to analyze why a company might make a decsion that even a novice could predict would be a public relations disaster. What this decision suggests is that VSL is under financial pressure. The problem may be that the market for the kind of excellence demonstrated by VSL products is relatively small. In this context selling and reselling the same samples to the same audience might become a matter of economic survival. I have no doubt, given the idealistic nature of the entire project in which VSL has engaged, that they meant what they said about the VIP upgrade path when they originally announced it. But, it would seem, circumstances have changed. If this speculation is correct, then the question is what is the best way to deal with the change in circumstances. Is it, for example, wise to risk alienating a significant part of the customer base and to risk, further, the loss of trust that this recent policy change engenders among committed professional customers? If a promise made so explicitly - - and so recently - - can be breached, what certainty can customers have that any new promises will be kept? 

At the same time, one has to recognize that economic survival has to be the first aim of any company - - no matter how idealistic its intentions. Look, for example, at music notation software. The worldwide demand for sophisticated music notation software is such that it has been able to support the ongoing development of only two applications, both produced, until recently, by small, financially shaky corporations. (Sibelius was recently acquired by Avid, a far larger, more financially secure company.) Anyone who works with Finale can perceive that, although it is probably the most flexible notational software, it is saddled with many layers of legacy code. I am sure that the folks at MakeMusic (Finale's parent company) would love to remedy this situation and do a complete rewrite so that the program would not exhibit anomalies such as huge consumption of CPU power for simple MIDI playback, but the problem is, most likely, that they cannot afford to hire the programming talent to accomplish this and that, to survive, they must come up with a new version of the program every single year. 

Perhaps it would be better for VSL to take its customers into confidence and state the facts of the situation rather than to provide lame cover stories. I suspect that many customers would feel more positively, if VSL simply stated that they could not afford to continue their original upgrade policy and that, to provide support for ongoing development, they have, very regretfully, been forced to break the promises they originally made. Being frank about the facts of the situation might go a long way to renew the culture of trust and collaboration that has, hitherto, existed between VSL and its customers. After all, we are musicians, so most of us know something about the conflict between ideals and economic reality.