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  4. Can't load a Full Orchestral Pallet into Logic 8
  • T
    T

    Hi Chad (et. al)

    Can I ask how you're getting audio out of your standalone instances of Vienna Ensemble back into Logic 8?

    I'm having such nightmares with the plugin versions of VE and there appears to be no guarantee of an update any time soon, so perhaps the standalone method is the way to go.   The sticking point seems to be getting audio back into Logic.  I'd rather do it in software than route via hardware, so am I right in thinking this requires the use of Jack or SoundFlower?  Is this terribly complicated, or could a numbskull like myself figure it out?

    Thanks for any help

    Jules
  • R
    R
    Jules, I was using Jack (couldn't figure how to route audio back to logic with soundflower).It's not too complicated once setup, but you do need to open a connection file after both Logic and VE have opened.It's very stable and the setup process is more transparent than Soundflower IMO. Right now i'm trying the Optical cable and s/pdif idea and it seems to be working fine.I'm doing this because i was tired of having to reopen the Jack connections all the time and Jack currently won't recognise a 2nd instance of VE(fix soon apparently).Also i wanted to see if it had any effect on latency. With Jack you need to install it, then name it as your device in Audio preferences.Then in Jack's Routing page you need to make the relevant connections between VE outputs and Logic inputs(you can make as many virtual in's/out's as you need in Jack pref's).You then save that setup and will need to reactivate it everytime you open an new VE. Bringing Audio back in to Logic is probably best done with the External instrument plugin on a software instrument track(i have them setup in groups, ww, brass etc).I found that bringing audio back in through Aux tracks didn't work as the Bus sends to Logic fx would cut out regularily. Ray
  • N
    N

    What's the optical/spdif idea?

    I'm trying to use more than one instance of VE with Jack, and it's causing problems with MIDI, not audio. Not sure if the audio works either. But when it does...oh man...very nice.

    I have another post, showing my problem. But seeing this makes me wonder. 
  • R
    R
    Optical cables can be run from certain audio interfaces or Mac's & PC's-You can run them to a separate audio card or route them directly back in to your interface.The same can be done with the s/pdif inputs and outputs on the back of the interface.E.g. , with a Motu 828 you can get an extra 5 stereo input's/ outputs using this method-Enough to return your audio as groups( WW,Brass, perc etc)?. Your problem is caused by the fact that Jack won't recognise the 2nd Instance(Apparently it will be sorted in the next Jackosx update).A workaround is to go into the Package contents of your 2nd VE copy(control click) in there you will see Vienna Ensemble in a Mac Os folder.If you rename this object and start the instance from in there you will find it shows up in Jack and your problems will be solved. Now, can anyone tell me how to break up my paragraph's on this Forum??
  • N
    N

    I use the Apogee Ensemble, which gives me both Optical outs and ins. 8 Tracks in/out. Seems like this is the best way to go even if there is an update to Jack, as Jack is another piece of software in the mix I dont' really want.

    I have spdif too, but I don't think it seperates the channels.

    Thanks for the help! 
  • R
    R
    Makes sense to keep it simple. Your s/pdif should give you another stereo pair....You shouldn't have any more problems with multiple instances. Let me know how your latency is?..
  • C
    C
    Hey Ray, Latency is a tad sluggish but it seems manageable for now. I will be writing and recording all day so I will let you know for sure how big of an issue it is. Thanks again, Chad
  • S
    S

     Ray:

    It would be extremely helpful to other forum participants if you would write step by step directions for configuring and using Jack OSX - - going through each setting and dialog box.  If you have the time and inclination, I think many here would be most appreciative of your effort.

    Stephen 
  • N
    N

    FYI, they have a beta download at their Yahoo club site, and I'm happy to say that is works with multiple instances of VE (audio and midi). I even tried to play about 40+tracks all at once and it doesn't top out on CPU yet.

    Still, since I have the ability I'm going for optic out/in since it'll eliminate a 3rd party app like that.

  • R
    R
    No Prob, I'll do the Jack setup later today step by step... Maybe we could all then come back with our thoughts re how latency compares between Jack v Optical etc...? Ray
  • N
    N

    Sure, and when you do that write up, don't miss teh following that I spent hours finding out lol

    1. If you are using Logic, you must set buffer size to 1024 on both Jack and Logic, or else audio will stutter.

    2. When selecting IAC ports in VE. If you run multiple instances, you must have all 4 selected in the options, and then just pick which one you need in the popup. This is because VE regardless of what copy, keeps the same settings in the preferences. So if you make one VE instance copy for IAC 1, and select JUST that in preferences. It will show up the same settings in your next copy

    3. Unless I"m mistaken, your pretty much forced to use a record enabled track in Logic to get the audio from VE standalone. Just record enable, and track protect the track so it doesn't unrecord enable itself when you select the MIDI tracks.

    Everything else worked for me. 
  • R
    R
    Mmm, I've had buffer sizes of 128/256 on both with no problem. It's true that you need to select all the VE IAC ports, but you only need to do it once!!. Regarding point 3 there are a number of ways to get audio in without record enabling tracks.The best way i've found ,as i mentioned above, is to use the External Instrument plug in on a new Audio instrument track.In this plugin you select the audio inputs you want to receive,ignore the IAC settings as you will already have set these up on your arrange page. The other method i know of is to open new Auxiliary tracks and specify the relevant inputs.This doesn't work too good though ,as the fx bus's fail. Jack setup coming shortly!!
  • R
    R
    So download JackOSX and open the app--Before you press the start button open Jack preferences and specify your interface(Ensemble,828, Built in Audio, whatever)-select your sample rate, start with a modest buffer size, give yourself a bunch virtual input and output channels.Tick the boxes relevant to you in the bottom panel....... Start JackPilot before you boot Logic or VE ..... IN VE preferences select Core Audio:Jack Router and set the latency the same as you have it in Jack Prefs........ In Logic in your Audio Hardware setup(H?) Make your Device Jack Router and set buffer size(latency) as above. In Logic , open your environment . open Audio in the top left, in the "New" menu, choose software instrument from Channel strip....Open 4 for now (WW, Brass, Perc, Strings). Choose an "External instrument" for these channels and set them to inputs 1-2, 3-4,5-6, 7-8. You can ignore the midi destination settings here, you will already have those channels assigned through IAC on your arrange page. In Ve setup an instrument (presuming you have midi sorted on your IAC's) set it's output to 1-2(VE should be showing all your virtual channels by now) Now, go back to your Jack pilot box and click "Routing" .This will open your connections manager box..... In the left panel you will see Vienna ensemble and all it's possible outputs...In the middle Panel you can choose Logic and all its inputs.So...In the left panel click VE out 1, then in the mid panel click Logic in 1-They should both go red to indicate they are connected.if anything else goes red it means the audio will be routed elsewhere so all you need to do is click the offender to turn it off...... Connect your corresponding channels in the connections manager and save it as a studio setup(Thank Jayzuz it only needs to be done once!!!...) Now , unless i've forgotten something ,you should have audio coming into Logic from VE through Jack.... Remember, you've got to start Jack first, then VE, then Logic....when VE has all your instruments open, then you open your saved studio setup. On the Jack site there is a script to open and boot it on startup which is very handy.... Hope this helps!!! Ray
  • R
    R
    Sorry forgot to say that you also need to specify Logics Audio outputs in the 3rd panel in JackOS.It's really straight forward....unlike my instructions...... A thought just occurred to me-Wouldn't it be great if this sort of simple routing was built into the VE standalone?.....
  • O
    O
    Hi Ray, thanx for sharing all this with us. What do you mean with "remembering to terminate your IAC'S!!!" in my physical inputs the IAC ports show up and i dont need to cable them. they show up in VE standalone, but when I adress more then one CHannel, Audio stops and breaks. IS this a Midi Loop? So far I can use VE Stanalone only on one Channel, absurd. Anyone else having this problem? Thanks again Oliver
  • R
    R
    Hi Oliver That is a midi loop and can be fixed quickly. In physical input you will sea all your IAC's.from the new menu open a monitor.Now run cables from all the IAC's in physical input to the monitor.That terminates and stops your loop!!.Happy days!!!!
  • O
    O
    Hi ray, you made my day! Should you ever come to Hamburg, I´ll by you several beers, cheers and Thanks Oliver
  • R
    R
    Oh boy, Hamburg... I have fuzzy memories of a wild night there while on tour several years ago, Great city.. Have a beer for me!! Glad you're sorted Oliver, Best, Ray
  • T
    T

    Ray

    Many thanks for your advice.  I'm going to try and give the VE Standalone scenario a run-through today.

    Unfortunately it seems others are finding even the standalone VE introduces greatly increased CPU overhead (compared to the VI plugins) which is causing audio glitching in some cases, so I guess this may be another solution which still needs some refining by VSL.

    The other thing that ocurred to me is that I actually don't need to route my standalone VE outputs back into Logic, as I actually mix outside Logic.  Persumably this means I can just run the VE standalone outputs to whatever physical outputs I want to use, and just avoid using those outputs in Logic.  This assumes Logic and VE are able to share hardware, which must be the case.

    Jules
  • R
    R
    last edited
    last edited

    @Trailerman said:

    Ray

     

    Many thanks for your advice.  I'm going to try and give the VE Standalone scenario a run-through today.

     

    Unfortunately it seems others are finding even the standalone VE introduces greatly increased CPU overhead (compared to the VI plugins) which is causing audio glitching in some cases, so I guess this may be another solution which still needs some refining by VSL.

     

    The other thing that ocurred to me is that I actually don't need to route my standalone VE outputs back into Logic, as I actually mix outside Logic.  Persumably this means I can just run the VE standalone outputs to whatever physical outputs I want to use, and just avoid using those outputs in Logic.  This assumes Logic and VE are able to share hardware, which must be the case.

     

    Jules

    Yeah, It's not perfect Jules, but it's so promising!. I have noticed glitches as more instruments are used, but it's not apparent if this is caused by latency, bandwidth, Logic 8 or something else.Personally i feel a little silly for going to Logic 8 so soon-Maybe all will be fixed with 8.1. .I thought VI was a towering work of genius when it appeared first, and now with VE it's a classic setup with a number of small, hopefully fixable issues. I think you might be onto a good thing if you don't mix in Logic-VE will see all your hardware outputs if setup right- Ray