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  4. Can't load a Full Orchestral Pallet into Logic 8
  • N
    N

    Sure, and when you do that write up, don't miss teh following that I spent hours finding out lol

    1. If you are using Logic, you must set buffer size to 1024 on both Jack and Logic, or else audio will stutter.

    2. When selecting IAC ports in VE. If you run multiple instances, you must have all 4 selected in the options, and then just pick which one you need in the popup. This is because VE regardless of what copy, keeps the same settings in the preferences. So if you make one VE instance copy for IAC 1, and select JUST that in preferences. It will show up the same settings in your next copy

    3. Unless I"m mistaken, your pretty much forced to use a record enabled track in Logic to get the audio from VE standalone. Just record enable, and track protect the track so it doesn't unrecord enable itself when you select the MIDI tracks.

    Everything else worked for me. 
  • R
    R
    Mmm, I've had buffer sizes of 128/256 on both with no problem. It's true that you need to select all the VE IAC ports, but you only need to do it once!!. Regarding point 3 there are a number of ways to get audio in without record enabling tracks.The best way i've found ,as i mentioned above, is to use the External Instrument plug in on a new Audio instrument track.In this plugin you select the audio inputs you want to receive,ignore the IAC settings as you will already have set these up on your arrange page. The other method i know of is to open new Auxiliary tracks and specify the relevant inputs.This doesn't work too good though ,as the fx bus's fail. Jack setup coming shortly!!
  • R
    R
    So download JackOSX and open the app--Before you press the start button open Jack preferences and specify your interface(Ensemble,828, Built in Audio, whatever)-select your sample rate, start with a modest buffer size, give yourself a bunch virtual input and output channels.Tick the boxes relevant to you in the bottom panel....... Start JackPilot before you boot Logic or VE ..... IN VE preferences select Core Audio:Jack Router and set the latency the same as you have it in Jack Prefs........ In Logic in your Audio Hardware setup(H?) Make your Device Jack Router and set buffer size(latency) as above. In Logic , open your environment . open Audio in the top left, in the "New" menu, choose software instrument from Channel strip....Open 4 for now (WW, Brass, Perc, Strings). Choose an "External instrument" for these channels and set them to inputs 1-2, 3-4,5-6, 7-8. You can ignore the midi destination settings here, you will already have those channels assigned through IAC on your arrange page. In Ve setup an instrument (presuming you have midi sorted on your IAC's) set it's output to 1-2(VE should be showing all your virtual channels by now) Now, go back to your Jack pilot box and click "Routing" .This will open your connections manager box..... In the left panel you will see Vienna ensemble and all it's possible outputs...In the middle Panel you can choose Logic and all its inputs.So...In the left panel click VE out 1, then in the mid panel click Logic in 1-They should both go red to indicate they are connected.if anything else goes red it means the audio will be routed elsewhere so all you need to do is click the offender to turn it off...... Connect your corresponding channels in the connections manager and save it as a studio setup(Thank Jayzuz it only needs to be done once!!!...) Now , unless i've forgotten something ,you should have audio coming into Logic from VE through Jack.... Remember, you've got to start Jack first, then VE, then Logic....when VE has all your instruments open, then you open your saved studio setup. On the Jack site there is a script to open and boot it on startup which is very handy.... Hope this helps!!! Ray
  • R
    R
    Sorry forgot to say that you also need to specify Logics Audio outputs in the 3rd panel in JackOS.It's really straight forward....unlike my instructions...... A thought just occurred to me-Wouldn't it be great if this sort of simple routing was built into the VE standalone?.....
  • O
    O
    Hi Ray, thanx for sharing all this with us. What do you mean with "remembering to terminate your IAC'S!!!" in my physical inputs the IAC ports show up and i dont need to cable them. they show up in VE standalone, but when I adress more then one CHannel, Audio stops and breaks. IS this a Midi Loop? So far I can use VE Stanalone only on one Channel, absurd. Anyone else having this problem? Thanks again Oliver
  • R
    R
    Hi Oliver That is a midi loop and can be fixed quickly. In physical input you will sea all your IAC's.from the new menu open a monitor.Now run cables from all the IAC's in physical input to the monitor.That terminates and stops your loop!!.Happy days!!!!
  • O
    O
    Hi ray, you made my day! Should you ever come to Hamburg, I´ll by you several beers, cheers and Thanks Oliver
  • R
    R
    Oh boy, Hamburg... I have fuzzy memories of a wild night there while on tour several years ago, Great city.. Have a beer for me!! Glad you're sorted Oliver, Best, Ray
  • T
    T

    Ray

    Many thanks for your advice.  I'm going to try and give the VE Standalone scenario a run-through today.

    Unfortunately it seems others are finding even the standalone VE introduces greatly increased CPU overhead (compared to the VI plugins) which is causing audio glitching in some cases, so I guess this may be another solution which still needs some refining by VSL.

    The other thing that ocurred to me is that I actually don't need to route my standalone VE outputs back into Logic, as I actually mix outside Logic.  Persumably this means I can just run the VE standalone outputs to whatever physical outputs I want to use, and just avoid using those outputs in Logic.  This assumes Logic and VE are able to share hardware, which must be the case.

    Jules
  • R
    R
    last edited
    last edited

    @Trailerman said:

    Ray

     

    Many thanks for your advice.  I'm going to try and give the VE Standalone scenario a run-through today.

     

    Unfortunately it seems others are finding even the standalone VE introduces greatly increased CPU overhead (compared to the VI plugins) which is causing audio glitching in some cases, so I guess this may be another solution which still needs some refining by VSL.

     

    The other thing that ocurred to me is that I actually don't need to route my standalone VE outputs back into Logic, as I actually mix outside Logic.  Persumably this means I can just run the VE standalone outputs to whatever physical outputs I want to use, and just avoid using those outputs in Logic.  This assumes Logic and VE are able to share hardware, which must be the case.

     

    Jules

    Yeah, It's not perfect Jules, but it's so promising!. I have noticed glitches as more instruments are used, but it's not apparent if this is caused by latency, bandwidth, Logic 8 or something else.Personally i feel a little silly for going to Logic 8 so soon-Maybe all will be fixed with 8.1. .I thought VI was a towering work of genius when it appeared first, and now with VE it's a classic setup with a number of small, hopefully fixable issues. I think you might be onto a good thing if you don't mix in Logic-VE will see all your hardware outputs if setup right- Ray
  • T
    T

    Hi Ray

    It's certainly promising, but still a few weird things going on here.

    First, when I launch Vienna Ensemble standalone, it takes 3 minutes 30 seconds to load, with nothing but the little VE splashscreen visible.  Don't know why it takes so long - Logic (7.2.3) itself launches in about 20 seconds, despite scanning presumably the same list of plugins (of which there are very few on this system).  Can't help feeling some people would have given up after a couple of minutes and force-quit.

    After that it works pretty much as you describe.  Setting up MIDI routing is a snap (although I did need to terminate my IAC ports), and I can freely route audio out of whichever hardware outputs I want (not quite true - it only shows 32 out of 64 outputs on this system, but I can live with that).

    However, the CPU and memory usage (at least according to Activity Monitor) is all over the place.   If I load around 400MB of samples, VE uses more than double that amount.  Every time I load an additional matrix, VE seems to grab an extra chunk of RAM for some reason.  It also seems to use significanlty more CPU than the Logic/VI combination, with just two simple parts requiring around 30%, where the Logic/VI combination uses around 80% for 12 parts.  Not exactly scientific I appreciate, but it's certainly using more CPU than the the VI plugins, or appears to be.

    Nonetheless, this looks like a great way of loading perhaps an extra 5 or 6 instruments when you've maxed out the amount of ram that the VI plugins alone can use.

    Thanks again for all your help with this

    Jules

    Mac Pro (8Core), 8GB Ram, OS 10.4.10, Logic 7.2.3, MOTU PCIe-424

    PS. No idea how I managed to change the font to Times NR, but turning it back is way beyond me.
  • R
    R
    Hi Jules, To be honest i wasn't really aware of the cpu hogging-I must keep an eye on it... VE certainly takes a while first time it's loaded but it's not as bad since the new VI update, licence scanning seems to almost instantaneous. Really the big advantage to me of the standalone is not having to open a new song when writing ideas in a hurry, you know how long a Logic song full of VI's can take to load........The disadvantages are not being able to bounce offline,(can live with this) and latency,(really, really don't like this). Can you tell me why my posts won't "paragraph" on this forum!?!?.I swear i space my sentences while writing but they don't appear like that online...I hope my old English teacher isn't reading this..... Ray
  • T
    T

    Clearly somebody at VSL has sabotaged the forum server to make us both look like idiots [:D]

    I take your point on the workflow benefits of VE.   I'm sure it's going to be great once they iron out a few quirks.

    Incidentally, I see no latency (literally) when I route VE straight out of my hardware and not back into Logic.  I can set the latency setting in the VE preferences right down to 64 samples, and it runs fine, and is extremely responsive - possibly even more responsive than using the VE or VI plugins.  I guess this suggests that the latency is occuring as audio is routed back into Logic.  Presumably your Audio Inputs in Logic are subject to Automatic Delay Compensation, and so will be delayed by the equivalent of the 'slowest' (most delayed) track in your mix - which if you're using Altiverb and the like, will be pretty latency-heavy.

    All the best

    Jules
  • R
    R
    That's interesting about your lack of latency, .. I'll check settings for delay compensation-My reverbs are on a TC Powercore bus so i'm guessing it shouldn't slow anything down?.. As a matter of interest how do you mix?? Best, Ray
  • T
    T

    If I understand correctly, Logic takes the track with the most latency in your entire mix, and then delays all the other tracks by that amount, in order to apply automatic delay compensation.  As a result, if you have any plugins in your mix which introduce latency, everything else will be delayed as a result.  Not an issue with normal audio and MIDI tracks (Logic probably bypasses ADC when the transport is static anyway), but for your audio input tracks, Logic is having to delay them all the time at the mix's maximum latency, because they are 'live' all the time.

    I can't believe I just explained that so badly!!

    My suspicion is that your Powercore Reverb will introduce a LOT of latency.  Most DSP based effects introduce even more latency than native effects, because the audio has to be routed to the device in question via the PCI or Firewire bus, and then back into 'native' land.  I use a Powercore Firewire and also use UAD-1 cards - tha latter introduce huge amounts of latency - depending on the host often twice the host buffer setting or more.

    The best way to test whether it's ADC causing the latency problem is just to disable it in Logic (in Audio Settings or Audio Hardware Settings from memory), and see if the latency improves.  If it doesn't then the issue must be elsewhere, and given that VE is so responsive when routed direct to hardware, that suggests the issue must be with Jack OSX.

    I route my entire Logic mixes into ProTools HD on a different system, via 64 channels of lightpipe, and then mix in ProTools in real-time (ie. with the arrangement still running in Logic).  I just happen to like the ProTools mixer, have lots of plugins on that machine and have just always worked that way.

    All the best

    Jules
  • R
    R
    Thanks for the hints-I'll follow through and hopefully get to the bottom of it-I'm not using JackOSX at the moment-Optical back to Logic for now...I checked and i haven't had ADC on at all so the problem is probably somewhere betwwen the VE outs and Logic and/ or plugs.. Best, Ray