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  3. Arranging/Scoring rates
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    F

     Actually, I think it would be okay to leave it the way it is, since no actual discussion of rates took place, and this thread could serve as a warning to others. [:)]

  • J
    J
    I suppose that's true. Good point. I certainly had no idea I was a maniacal criminal before today! ;-)

    J.
  • D
    D

    I would have thought that the right to freedom of speech negates all that cp*p. So the US is not the land of the free after all. [;)]

    DG
  • W
    W

    I was thinking the same thing, somewhat more belligerently and obscenely... though I guess Big Brother is watching. 

    Now is the time to join the Underground! 

  • F
    F
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    @DG said:

    I would have thought that the right to freedom of speech negates all that cp*p
     

    Slander and perjury are just two examples of types of speech that can get you into serious trouble because of the damage you can do to others with mere words. And good luck to anyone relying on the First Amendment as a defence against shouting 'Fire!' in a crowded theatre.

    The right to freedom of speech is a right that must be used wisely; it isn't a 'get out of jail free' card for whatever harm can be done with words alone.

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    D
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    @DG said:

    I would have thought that the right to freedom of speech negates all that cp*p
     

    Slander and perjury are just two examples of types of speech that can get you into serious trouble because of the damage you can do to others with mere words. And good luck to anyone relying on the First Amendment as a defence against shouting 'Fire!' in a crowded theatre.

    The right to freedom of speech is a right that must be used wisely; it isn't a 'get out of jail free' card for whatever harm can be done with words alone.

    Of course not, but nobody is going to tell me whether or not I can tell someone how much I charge.

    DG
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    F
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    @DG said:

    Of course not, but nobody is going to tell me whether or not I can tell someone how much I charge.
     

    When that someone is a potential or actual competitor of yours, I think you'll find that the US Federal Trade Commission disagrees with you, and they are supported by over a century of legislation and court judgements.

    In all seriousness, when people have gone to jail because they had an after-dinner conversation about commission rates, it shows that some kinds of speech are considered threats to the public trust in the US (hence, 'anti-trust'), and prosecuted accordingly.

    Note that I'm neither defending nor advocating the situation, just pointing out the potential danger, and showing you where you can find links to real legal information and advice.

    That is all. [:)] 
  • D
    D
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    @DG said:

    Of course not, but nobody is going to tell me whether or not I can tell someone how much I charge.
     

    When that someone is a potential or actual competitor of yours, I think you'll find that the US Federal Trade Commission disagrees with you, and they are supported by over a century of legislation and court judgements.

    I also don't care what they think either. [;)]

    DG
  • W
    W

    I keep on agreeing with DG on this.  In fact, I basically don't believe it.  I can talk to anyone about anything that is non-violent or non-slanderous and can sue your ass off if you try to stop me.
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    @William said:

    I keep on agreeing with DG on this.  In fact, I basically don't believe it.  I can talk to anyone about anything that is non-violent or non-slanderous and can sue your ass off if you try to stop me.

    I guess that a lot of this would depend on whether or not you were a representative of a business. In my case that would mean that I'm working right now. Must remember to pay myself. Ooo, there go another two pennies. Drat, I mentioned money; off to jail I go. [:P]

    DG
  • C
    C

     fcw says that we can legitimately obtain rates by obtaining "surveys published by reputable trade or professional bodies."

    So, I would like to pronounce that THIS THREAD IS AN OFFICIAL SURVEY.

    Also I would like to announce that I am a professional body. (160 lbs., 8% bodyfat)

    The line starts here, ladies.

    Clark
  • J
    J
    I always love articles that start out "I'm not a lawyer, but..." In other words, everything I say here could be a complete misunderstanding of the truth, but I'm going to publish it anyway.

    I missed the original deleted post, so I can't comment on that. However specifically for arranging in the USA there are union minimums which basically say that arranging rates must be higher than orchestration. Orchestration minimum rates are clearly defined by collective bargaining agreements which list per page rates based on the number of lines and other terms of the contract. There are specific agreements for films, live TV, videogames, etc. The rates vary per agreement as a result of negotiations over amount of potential work, industry revenues, secondary payments, and the like.

    To say we can't collectively discuss rates would mean we also can't have a union. The information is freely available on the web to anyone who visits the AFM site.

    Composing has no set minimum rates as composers do not have a union or guild to collectively negotiate terms. As a result, fees vary widely. That is, they vary VERY WIDELY. Also be aware that things are different with composing because composers usually are not considered employees in the USA for most situations. If you want some rough numbers, the Flim Music Network occasionally publishes a rate survey for less than $20, if I recall. I think it's a downloadable pamphlet.
  • P
    P

    This page contains links to the New York standard union rates for most musical categories incuding orchestration.

    http://www.local802afm.org/frames/fs_wage.htm 

    Arranging fees are not set. The requirement is that the rates are higher than those for orchestration. You should also be aware that these are the union minimums and do not neccesarily reflect the actual rates charged by experienced pros.

    Be Well,

    Poppa