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  4. Can't load a Full Orchestral Pallet into Logic 8
  • cmC
    VSL Team
    cmC

    just yesterday i have heard about (i'd assume) the same effect - what is not clear to me is why 8GB should be a limit if it passes the 4 GB?

    anyway, i sent a not to our developers about it - does it show the same behavior combining VI and VE or plugin + stand-alone?

    curious ... christian

    and remember: only a CRAY can run an endless loop in just three seconds.
  • C
    C
    Yes, very curious! I don't know if it will do the same thing when VI and VE are combined so I'll have to get back to you on that. However, I did try the same set up in ProTools and the same thing happened. After I loaded all woodwinds and brass and then tried the percussion, VI froze and the program crashed. Just so you know, I have tried different combinations of instruments and the same thing happens so it has nothing to do with a corrupt sample file etc. Hopefully the folks in development will have some ideas. I will await their response and in the mean time test VI and VE combined. Thanks again, Chad
  • C
    C
    Hey Christian and/or anyone else, I have tested VI and VE combined and the same proble persists. Any word from development as to why I am not able to load a full orchestral pallet when I have plenty of RAM? Thanks
  • M
    M

     Dear chumley,

    please have a look at this older posting of mine:

    http://community.vsl.co.at/forums/p/8122/60340.aspx#60340

    It explains why it is impossible to access more than 4 GB per application (being 32 bit) no matter how much RAM you have installed. Probably you were referring to the virtual memory readout in activity monitor? However Virtual memory is not relevant for us. This blog might shed some light on it:

    http://sg80bab.blogspot.com/2007/03/is-my-mac-using-too-much-memory.html

    Best regards,

    Maya 
  • C
    C
    Hi Maya, Thanks for the links. I actually was not referring to the virtual memory reader in the activity monitor but was indeed seeing that I still had over 9 GB of RAM left over. I guess it doesn't matter in any case because as you stated it is impossible to access more than 4 GB per application. Any suggestions as to what to do? I have all of the system requirements as stated on VI's website and then some and have spent quite a bit of time and money converting my studio to accommodate the VSL yet I am unable to use the library to it's full capacity. I am feeling quite stuck and would appreciate any solutions. Thanks again, Chad
  • D
    D

    Make a copy of the VE application, and run another standalone.

    DG
  • C
    C
    Okay, now I've had it. I can't have a full orchestral pallet loaded into my G5 with 16 GB RAM, I can't seem to get VE to work without it crashing my session, when I have gotten it to work I can't seem to figure out how to make it so that each instrument has it's own channel. I don't know what else to do as I feel as though I have tried everything. I have had nothing but problems and issues with the VSL ever since I purchased it towards the end of the summer and I have upgraded, re-configured, and tried everything suggested to get this freaking library to work properly. The idea of the technology is superior, the samples are amazing, but the execution really seems to suck. Can someone please, please, please help restore my faith in this company and it's products. Everything seems to just be an absolute process and hassle. All I want to be able to do is load a full orchestral template into Logic 8 and have it work so that I can compose and record music for orchestra. It's that simple. Isn't this the reason why we have have all bought this library? Why are so many of us having problems? I'm not an idiot, I've been working with technology and music software programs for years and have never had anything that is so expensive be such a pain to use in a practical functioning manner. Can someone offer me a conversation on the phone to help walk me through a process to see if it's me that's the problem or is it indeed that the VSL is just too problematic and doesn't function properly with the majority of systems out there? Thank you all. Chad
  • R
    R
    Chad, My system is quite similar and i have managed to get quite large palettes open.I can't get VE to work well inside Logic 8, though that doesn't bother me particularily.The beauty of VE to me is in the standalone which is very stable ,can be opened once in the morning (large orch) and you can then open Logic with a substantial amount of VI's as needed for each cue. You are experiencing a memory ceiling in Logic 8 and VE plugin, both of which are still very new so it can be frustrating but in my opinion VE is not really the problem, apart from latency which i haven't figured out yet. Are you trying to load every articulation for all instruments?.If this is the case i'd suggest starting small and build up. Also as a previous poster suggested you should try open 1 or more Standalone VE'S.This will involve setting up IAC'S in your OSX Audio midi setup(remembering to terminate your IAC'S!!!) and routing your audio back to logic(has to be done if you wanna mix)! but there are a couple of nifty ways to do this, either by optical cables and s/pdif or by routing through Soundflower or JackOSX but maybe you don't need to do this. With 16 gb of ram you should be able to open several instances of VE standalones by copying the app and fill each one to it's 2.5 gb limit. I'm guessing the struggle is mostly with Logic which is marvellous but tricky to setup and very , very bug infested at the moment.. Let me know if i can help you get it set up. Ray
  • C
    C
    Ah Ha! Ray, thanks for jumping in on this. If you've got a moment I would really appreciate a walk through on this set up. Let me know how and when and I will be there. Perhaps through this we can help some other folks out there realize the full potential of this software. Again, thank you and much appreciated.
  • R
    R
    No Prob Chad, I'm online all day (GMT) . Ray
  • C
    C
    Hey Ray, Alright, I'm almost there. I have set up VE as a stand alone with samples loaded. I went into the IAC and set it up so that the different buses would show up in Logic. I went into Logic and set up some MIDI tracks and selected the buses to correspond with the VE stand alone samples. I can see that this is going to work but my only problem now is that I've got a MIDI feedback loop. I clicked on the MIDI track to get "reassign track object" and have gone to the "click and ports" layer in the sub menu. It's my understanding that I need to disconnect the physical input cables from the recording and thru object which will disconnect the IAC bus which will stop the loop. My problem is that when I select the "click and ports" layer the only option it gives me is "input notes." I can't seem to get to the graphic page that would allow me to make the necessary disconnects. Is there another way? Thanks again. Chad
  • R
    R
    Ok , the way i do it is to open an environment, in the top left choose clicks and ports if you see your "physical input' all well and good otherwise choose it from the "new ' menu.In physical input you will sea all your IAC's.from the new menu open a monitor.Now run cables from all the IAC's to the monitor.That should do it!!! R
  • C
    C
    Ray, you the man!! Everything is working great and I can't believe I finally have a full Orchestral pallet with some flexibility. Thanks for stepping in here and bringing me to the light. What an education! Thanks again, Chad. Chad
  • R
    R
    Chad, I am here to serve..... Delighted you got it up and running-told you Logic was the troublemaker!... I stumbled on that IAC thing after days chewing my knuckles.. Now, having similar systems i'd be keen to know if you have any problems with latency on the standalone-that's my only issue with it now and i think i read here somewhere that they are working on it..Basically whatever the latency setting on the VE standalone it feels much bigger when playing and on playback.I've tested it by sending EXS 24 out and back in and also with "The Grand2" standalone but these don't seem to have the same problem. Keep well, Ray
  • T
    T

    Hi Chad (et. al)

    Can I ask how you're getting audio out of your standalone instances of Vienna Ensemble back into Logic 8?

    I'm having such nightmares with the plugin versions of VE and there appears to be no guarantee of an update any time soon, so perhaps the standalone method is the way to go.   The sticking point seems to be getting audio back into Logic.  I'd rather do it in software than route via hardware, so am I right in thinking this requires the use of Jack or SoundFlower?  Is this terribly complicated, or could a numbskull like myself figure it out?

    Thanks for any help

    Jules
  • R
    R
    Jules, I was using Jack (couldn't figure how to route audio back to logic with soundflower).It's not too complicated once setup, but you do need to open a connection file after both Logic and VE have opened.It's very stable and the setup process is more transparent than Soundflower IMO. Right now i'm trying the Optical cable and s/pdif idea and it seems to be working fine.I'm doing this because i was tired of having to reopen the Jack connections all the time and Jack currently won't recognise a 2nd instance of VE(fix soon apparently).Also i wanted to see if it had any effect on latency. With Jack you need to install it, then name it as your device in Audio preferences.Then in Jack's Routing page you need to make the relevant connections between VE outputs and Logic inputs(you can make as many virtual in's/out's as you need in Jack pref's).You then save that setup and will need to reactivate it everytime you open an new VE. Bringing Audio back in to Logic is probably best done with the External instrument plugin on a software instrument track(i have them setup in groups, ww, brass etc).I found that bringing audio back in through Aux tracks didn't work as the Bus sends to Logic fx would cut out regularily. Ray
  • N
    N

    What's the optical/spdif idea?

    I'm trying to use more than one instance of VE with Jack, and it's causing problems with MIDI, not audio. Not sure if the audio works either. But when it does...oh man...very nice.

    I have another post, showing my problem. But seeing this makes me wonder. 
  • R
    R
    Optical cables can be run from certain audio interfaces or Mac's & PC's-You can run them to a separate audio card or route them directly back in to your interface.The same can be done with the s/pdif inputs and outputs on the back of the interface.E.g. , with a Motu 828 you can get an extra 5 stereo input's/ outputs using this method-Enough to return your audio as groups( WW,Brass, perc etc)?. Your problem is caused by the fact that Jack won't recognise the 2nd Instance(Apparently it will be sorted in the next Jackosx update).A workaround is to go into the Package contents of your 2nd VE copy(control click) in there you will see Vienna Ensemble in a Mac Os folder.If you rename this object and start the instance from in there you will find it shows up in Jack and your problems will be solved. Now, can anyone tell me how to break up my paragraph's on this Forum??
  • N
    N

    I use the Apogee Ensemble, which gives me both Optical outs and ins. 8 Tracks in/out. Seems like this is the best way to go even if there is an update to Jack, as Jack is another piece of software in the mix I dont' really want.

    I have spdif too, but I don't think it seperates the channels.

    Thanks for the help! 
  • R
    R
    Makes sense to keep it simple. Your s/pdif should give you another stereo pair....You shouldn't have any more problems with multiple instances. Let me know how your latency is?..