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  • The March To Glory

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    Hey guys,

    I'm pretty proud of this. This is my first composition. 90% of it was made with Vienna Instruments Special Edition, the other 10% is ProjectSAMs True Strike 2. Any comments?


    Here the link:

    The March To Glory

    -Allen Mackley

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    @allen_27821 said:

    Any comments?Allen Mackley 
    Yes - when the first brass stabs occur - did you use a synthesizer to get that particular sound?
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    Nope, it's just all Vienna Instruments except for the drums in the background. 

    I used the Amsterdam Concertgebouw IR from Altiverb 6, also.  

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    Yes - you do understand what's wrong with the opening (what I assume to be trombones) brass lines right?---------------No brass player in the world is going to play detached repeating notes that do what is happening here, are they? If realism was NOT your goal - then forget what I'm suggesting. If you're looking to get your music to sound as orchestrally realistic as possible (in the sense that samples ever can) - then you may want to change a few articulations.
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    Making it sound cinamatic is more important to me than making it sound real.  I don't intend to have a real orchestra play this.  But just out of curiousity (because I'm no expert), why couldn't a brass player play like that?  I stacked sforzato with a sustain, so let's assume it's two trombone players, one for each... could they play it then?  Or would they get blue in the face and out of air to quickly...lol....

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     After reading your reply over again, I think I understand what you're getting at.  In a real situation, the brass players (or even the flute player) need more time to breath in-between notes.  I thought about that a little when I was creating this (of course, this is my very first attempt at composing an orchestra), but perhaps I should have shortened the length on some of those notes to give the brass players room to breath so that, if it was a real situation, they wouldn't pass out and tumble down the stage... 

      

     A lot of what appears to be sustains might actually be the dense reverb tail, also.  

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    What you've done is play the trombone sample patch direct from a keyboard by the sound of it. That is no bad thing to do actually. Playing in from a keyboard gives more feel in my view. But you seem to have kept going with the same patch all through the opening brass section. This has 2 effects on a listener ---(a) the same riff over and over sounds boring after a while and listeners lose interest - in other words it would better to orchestrate in a more interesting way and (b) brass players in reality would never be able to play that.------------------ I'm all for people mixing their orchestras in ways that could never happen live as a matter of fact ------Bernard Herrmann was a master at that kind of thing---------but the actual instrument sound should be as realistic as possible or you may as well use a synthesizer.--------------As a positive suggestion -------if you are a keyboard player or are using a keybpard to play things in------I would play what you want in as say a piano piece and then when it sounds pretty much as you want it-----then start orchestrating for the orchestra------in fact use several piano pieces if necessary. Then blow the piano parts to orchestral instruments.--Orchestration and instrumentation are key issues for you at this stage. :)))) Keep it simple to start off with.
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    How else would I play a sample library than with a keyboard? (??)

    I did go in and edit the MIDI, however, so that the brass notes don't sustain as long or overlap.

    People actually like lots of repetition as it’s catchy.  If you do it right it can be very entertaining - having things weave in and out.  It's a very good thing to have lots of repetition for film and video games, as it presents melodies and themes which stick in the viewers mind and bring up emotions later in the story to tie it together better, which is what I'm teaching myself to compose like.  However, TOO much repetition, does, you're right, get annoying.  So I've tried to find a balance.  I actually think traditional, classical music can be boring sometimes (but not always), so it's all a matter of perspective.  There is no right or wrong here...

    One of the neat things about Gigastudio, for example, is that you can layer sampled instruments to get unique sounds.  I've done the same with Vienna, in this case.  I prefer to use a virtual instrument instead of a synthesizer because a synthesizer doesn't give you the same tone.  As what I've created is far from electronic styled music... ;)  

    I like your idea of composing the piano piece first.  That's the way that they show you how to do it in the demo videos that Vienna Symphonic Library has on this website.  I think I'll try that next.   

    But, as I'm sure you know, "classical" music is dying out and being replaced with a more "rock orchestra" type sound for films and video games.  This is what I'm going for.  I don't think it's good or bad.  It just is. But, I think it's also a lot of fun either way.

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    Hahhha! I like your style Allen - I'm hoping that's your first name right.----You are a cheeky young bugger coming on here saying you're proud of your attempt. Haha! I like that though - I think that's a lot of fun and shows you have some good thoughts going. Well done, and believe me - coming from me that's a compliment.----------------Regarding 'how else' would one play a sample library - well, a lot of the guys are not keyboard players as such and may use something like Sibelius or Finale and a mouse and get pretty good results. Also, a lot of orchestral parts may be impossible to play on a keyboard - for instance very fast string or woodwing runs or rushes. ---------------- Regarding repetition - repetition in musical terms can certainly be interesting I agree - but not when the same instrument or sound is constantly used.----You're going to have to trust me on the use of sound and articulations-------listen to what some of the guys have done on the demo site here - some of these boys are really good with the use of articulations.------------Yes - go for the video games - always try and do what your interest is.----------------Classical music is dying? I am meeting up with Sir Neville Marinner in a couple of weeks at a concert - I will pass on your message to him and try to convince him it's time to get into 'rock orchestra'. :)))))))))))------Time for me to get back to work. Very interesting.:))))))
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    Well, I'm glad I'm giving you a laugh!!   [;)]

    I've never been called a cheeky, young bugger before though as I'm actually a quiet, shy type of person! LOL....

    Though I am young - just turned 21 today... 

    Maybe it's because I've been up all night.... hehehe... 

    Yes classical music is dying.... it's nearly dead already!!!! But I wouldn't mind seeing it come back!!! 

    I'm trying to go for that Hans Zimmer, Klaus Badelt kinda sound.

    But, yes... I completely admit - I know nothing.... 

    -Allen 
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     Like the song "Molossus" to the Batman Begins film.  Super repetitive, but also really, really entertaining because of how it weaves in and out of instruments, but the underlying strings and synth are doing the same thing throughout most of the song, only the dynamics change so that you only notice the repetition at certain points. 

    Another example is Hans Zimmer's "Chevalier de Sangreal" from Da Vinci Code.   The same string part plays in the background throughout the entire song... and there are some really gentle "synthy" type things going on there too. 

    More articulations would be nice.... $600 for the Vienna Strings *gulp*, $600 more for the Vienna Winds, *gulp*....  
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    Another example:  "Duel of the Fates," by John Williams....  

    sorry, I think I've hammered in my point well enough... 
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    @allen_27821 said:

    Though I am young - just turned 21 today... 
    Call it a wild guess. Well!!!! 21 TODAY!!! Happy Birthday my dear fellow. This is a special day for you. I have a daughter just turned 24 so I know what is must mean.-------------------Hans Zimmer and Klaus Badelt ay? Fantastic stuff!!!!! Hehehehe! Well -back to work.
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    Well, thanks....

    How old are you.... over 40 I'm guessing.... 
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    With a 24 year old daughter, I would hope that Paul is over 40. [;)]
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    Yeah... but I just wanted to rub it in....  he's been giving me a hard time... so I thought I'd do the same [:P]

    Okay, you must be over 70 then Paul.... 40 was too young of a guess...
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    Young Grasshopper, if you think that Paul has been giving you a hard time, you are much mistaken. He was merely toying with you. If he really gave you a hard time, you wouldn't be able to show your head here for at least a decade. [:D]

    DG
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     Alright, I realize now that Paul is all laughs... [:D] I was starting to take him seriously for a while there...

    Thanks for the advice though Paul, I will take it to heart as I dig into my next song.  Anything else you or anybody else noticed in my song that you think could be improved upon other than the way the brass sounded?

    I experimented with adding more or less reverb.  More reverb seems to make the instruments sound more real, but too much makes them sound too dull and washed out.  Also, I just realized that the flute is slightly distored at the beginning because it was clippling slightly as it was processed through Altiverb.  Did anybody else who listened to the song notice that?

    -Allen 
  • PaulP Paul moved this topic from Orchestration & Composition on