Vienna Symphonic Library Forum
Forum Statistics

199,024 users have contributed to 43,150 threads and 258,877 posts.

In the past 24 hours, we have 6 new thread(s), 13 new post(s) and 56 new user(s).

  1. Home
  2. Sample Libraries
  3. Vienna Instruments Libraries
  4. Solo Violin legato not sustaining in SE

  • Solo Violin legato not sustaining in SE

    O
    O

    Hello,

    I'm working with the solo violin legato patch and when my melody goes to D3, it won't sustain for the full value.  I know that the legato patches are not meant to sustain as long as the sus patches, but the weird thing is that I can get it to sustain for the full value if I start playback right before that note. However, if I start several notes earlier, then it cuts off D3 shorter than its full value.  Also, when I play the sample of D4 using legato directly in the player, it lasts way longer than my application of the note in my arrangment.  Frustrated at the moment, especially since this is exactly the type of application where using legato is critical: Slow tempo string writing.

    Btw the tempo is 60 BPM, and the note is a dotted half, so exactly 3 seconds long.  Again, works fine if I start playback right before it. 

    Any thoughts?   

    Thanks,

    Omid 
  • O
    O

     Just tried sliding that particular note around, and it lasts for its full value on every pitch that I tried except on D3. Hmmm.

  • D
    D

    OK, I'm assuming that you mean D4 when you say D3!

    When you hit a note or click on a note in the GUI you are getting a start note which is a fresh bow attack. When you play legato into this note, you are getting a note that is slurred into the previous one. Depending on the volume, theses notes are of varying length, due to the finite length of a bow. If there is a problem then use a sustain instead.

    DG
  • O
    O

     Yeah, actually I meant D3 in all cases. 

    But still, you're explanation of why a slurred note leaves less bow makes perfect sense, but still does not address why every other combination works fine except D3 in this case.  In other words, I have shifted that one note to many others, and no problem.  But, on D3 it just does not last as long.  I don't see why it would be different for amy one note, since that has nothing to do with bow distribution, and is purely a left hand issue on the violin.  Of course, your suggestion to use sustain works fine, except that in very exposed passages such as this one, even with a library as incredibly consistent as VSL, there is still a perceptible difference between the two articulations.  

    In any case, thanks for chiming in. 
  • D
    D

    Not to be pedantic, but the reason I corrected your terminology, is that a violin can't play D3. The lowest is D4. Yes, I know that your sequencer might be telling you that it is D3, but this is incorrect, according the International Standard. This states that middle C is C4. The reason that I'm banging on about this is that many times people complain that keyswitches don't work etc., only to discover (after denying it a few times) that in fact their sequencer/keyboard is working at the wrong octave. It would make things easier when you have a question if you adopt the International standard.[:)]


    DG
  • O
    O

     Thanks DG.  Point well made.

    I am still hoping that someone can explain what is going on, now that it's been made clear which "D" I am speaking of.  I'm probably doing something wrong, as I can't imagine that VSL would have such an obvious inconsistency in its library.  However, I've totally exhausted my own search for mistakes that I might be making here.  It just doesn't add up.  Why would the note last longer using ANY other pitch than D4?  

    Omid 
  • T
    T
    I've had the exact same issue in other legato patches. For some reason, sometimes certain legato's won't sustain. I posted about it once a while ago, but never got an answer. Right now I can't recall which patch it was, but I believe I posted something about it a while back.
  • D
    D

    I think that the answer is that they just do. Sorry not to have been more help on this one. [:(]

    DG
  • T
    T
    last edited
    last edited
    Yeah, that's what I've come to discover. Sometimes you have to replay the passage a few times to get it to work, but it would be nice to figure out what the cause is.

    @DG said:

    I think that the answer is that they just do. Sorry not to have been more help on this one.

     

    DG
  • D
    D
    last edited
    last edited

    @Tripit said:

    Yeah, that's what I've come to discover. Sometimes you have to replay the passage a few times to get it to work, but it would be nice to figure out what the cause is.
    Ah, but I think that this is not the same issue. If you have to play the passage a number of times to get it to work, then something else is going wrong, and I don't even thing it is the OSX memory handling issue. Can you be more specific, or even upload an example, because this has never happened to me on PC. I have very occasionally had a passage that won't play the first couple of notes correctly, but has been fine when rendered. I never got to the bottom of that one, but I've never had this random length issue that you seem to be describing.

    DG
  • H
    H

    Pressing any key on the keyboard outside the instruments playrange, which is not an assigned to a keyswitch, will cause a note off.

    (that's because of the monophonic mode of the perf-legato instruments)

    This could also happen, if a different track in the sequenzer has erroneous assigned to the same midi channel.

    Anything else is a kind  of starting note versus interval note issue.

    A startingnote is normally longer than the intervall notes.

    All the intervall notes of a certain performance legato instruments do have approximate the same length, especially at the same velocity.

    There are a few performance legato instruments, where the forte layers does have sligthly a different length than the piano layers.

    best

    Herb
  • T
    T
    last edited
    last edited

    @Tripit said:

    Yeah, that's what I've come to discover. Sometimes you have to replay the passage a few times to get it to work, but it would be nice to figure out what the cause is.

    Ah, but I think that this is not the same issue. If you have to play the passage a number of times to get it to work, then something else is going wrong, and I don't even thing it is the OSX memory handling issue. Can you be more specific, or even upload an example, because this has never happened to me on PC. I have very occasionally had a passage that won't play the first couple of notes correctly, but has been fine when rendered. I never got to the bottom of that one, but I've never had this random length issue that you seem to be describing.

    DG

    This happens to me on PC. It's been a while since the last time I had it happen, but as I recall, I had a slow passage with lots of long notes mixed with a few shorter passing notes. The problem I had on that one time was that when I got to certain long notes, they would cut off. If I played the same note by itself, it would sustain fine, but when I played back the passage, the last note would in a phrase wouldn't sustain. Also, more recently I was auditioning an instrument for something and I had a certain note cutting off short. I can't remember what I was using, but it very well have been the solo violin. Anyway, I didn't have time to deal with it, so I moved around it one way or another. Anyway, it in my case it seems to be the random longer notes that gets shortened for some strange reason. I do know that it doesn't seem to happen with the apass strings. I use them all the time, and they've been fine. I'm going to make note the next time it happens.
  • T
    T
    last edited
    last edited

    @herb said:

    Pressing any key on the keyboard outside the instruments playrange, which is not an assigned to a keyswitch, will cause a note off.

    (that's because of the monophonic mode of the perf-legato instruments)

    This could also happen, if a different track in the sequenzer has erroneous assigned to the same midi channel.

     

    Anything else is a kind  of starting note versus interval note issue.

    A startingnote is normally longer than the intervall notes.

    All the intervall notes of a certain performance legato instruments do have approximate the same length, especially at the same velocity.

    There are a few performance legato instruments, where the forte layers does have sligthly a different length than the piano layers.

     

    best

    Herb

    I'll keep all of that in mind. Maybe the starting note, interval note was the issue.
  • D
    D
    last edited
    last edited

    @Tripit said:

    This happens to me on PC. It's been a while since the last time I had it happen, but as I recall, I had a slow passage with lots of long notes mixed with a few shorter passing notes. The problem I had on that one time was that when I got to certain long notes, they would cut off. If I played the same note by itself, it would sustain fine, but when I played back the passage, the last note would in a phrase wouldn't sustain.
    This is the issue Herb was talking about regarding start notes and legato notes. If you play two notes, the second is a legato note. If you play one, then it is a start note, and therefore is a different sample.

    DG
  • O
    O

    Herb,

    First of all, danke fuer deine (Ihre?) antwort, und auf alle faelle, viellen dank fuer einen wunderbaren Produkt.  Sorry for the lousy grammar, it's been a while since I lived in Vienna!

    To all,

    All of this not only makes a lot of sense, but is also aurally noticeable.  The sample is clearly different when it is an interval note...at least when one listens very carefully (trying not to critique the consistency of VSL samples too much![A]).  

    However, I still don't understand why I can try any other pitch in its place and get the full length that I want.  I'm still wondering if I did something weird, but I just can't find it.  I've looked all over to see if I accidentally recorded a controller message, but nothing has surfaced yet.  In any case, I've used the sus patch on that note, and am getting over it. [:D]

    By the way, the passage in question is the first movement of Beethoven's Op.131 string quartet...the incomperable fugue that starts the equally incomperable 7 movement masterpiece.   This is without a doubt one of my all time favorite pieces, and I thought it would make a great exercise for tempo and dynamic shaping.  The statement of the fugue subject by the second violin goes to D4 on its 4th note.  The same idea works fine in every other instance and in every other key center and instrument that the fugue subject appears except for that one.

    Herb, if a passage has uninterrupted legato notes, that means that all of them other than the first are interval notes, regardless of how long the passage is?

    Thanks,

    Omid 
  • T
    T
    last edited
    last edited

    @Tripit said:

    This happens to me on PC. It's been a while since the last time I had it happen, but as I recall, I had a slow passage with lots of long notes mixed with a few shorter passing notes. The problem I had on that one time was that when I got to certain long notes, they would cut off. If I played the same note by itself, it would sustain fine, but when I played back the passage, the last note would in a phrase wouldn't sustain.

    This is the issue Herb was talking about regarding start notes and legato notes. If you play two notes, the second is a legato note. If you play one, then it is a start note, and therefore is a different sample.

    DG

    That would probably explain why I had longer notes that sounded out shorter in the middle and end of the passage. I guess the solution would be to using switching to cover those notes with non legato sus notes. I just assumed that all the notes in the legato patch would be roughly the same length.