I'm not trying to just complain randomly.. I guess what I'm wondering is, does the VSL team think this is OK? I don't understand. Everything else in the library is of top-notch quality. Did anyone even test the strings out? Did they play around with the legato strings, and hear how bad it sounds, and release it anyway?

I don't intend to sound mean or overly critical, but I really do want to know what they were thinking. Part of the reason I invested in this library was for the legato strings. I'm disappointed to find that they are mostly unusable.

I really work a lot with with the legato strings. I always use them without a problem whenever a legato line for strings is recommended.
Personally I prefer stacking solo or chamber strings with the large strings for controlling vibrato intensity and timbre.

some examples:

Princess Leias Theme
http://vsl.co.at/en-us/67/3920/4538.vsl

Danse Macabre
http://vsl.co.at/en-us/67/3920/4057.vsl

Violin ensemble + solo violin (here you hear exclusively performance legato of ensemble violins stacked with solo violin)
http://vsl.co.at/en-us/67/3959/3735/3784/3785.vsl#

Here is a topic link where I've posted some midifiles.
http://community.vsl.co.at/viewtopic.php?p=35865#35865

Further a lot of the other classic and user demos also featuring the strings legati extensively.

best
Herb

Danse Macabre sounded pretty good. Leia's theme didn't sound so hot to me (the violins towards the middle & end). They sounded a bit "lurchy".

Here's an example of a clip I don't think VSL/Opus legato cellos could do:

http://www.samhulick.com/misc/tallis.mp3

If someone can prove me wrong, I'd be more than happy to say I was wrong. [:)] I'd be thrilled if this were possible.

Hello Herb,

I am confused. Are these demos using the SAME string legato articulations as are included in the Opus 1 package? Or are there actually other, smoother legato articulations in the Pro Edition that were used in these demos?

@herb said:

I really work a lot with with the legato strings. I always use them without a problem whenever a legato line for strings is recommended.
Personally I prefer stacking solo or chamber strings with the large strings for controlling vibrato intensity and timbre.

some examples:

Princess Leias Theme
http://vsl.co.at/en-us/67/3920/4538.vsl

Danse Macabre
http://vsl.co.at/en-us/67/3920/4057.vsl

Violin ensemble + solo violin (here you hear exclusively performance legato of ensemble violins stacked with solo violin)
http://vsl.co.at/en-us/67/3959/3735/3784/3785.vsl#

Here is a topic link where I've posted some midifiles.
http://community.vsl.co.at/viewtopic.php?p=35865#35865

Further a lot of the other classic and user demos also featuring the strings legati extensively.

best
Herb

@Peter Roos said:

I am confused. Are these demos using the SAME string legato articulations as are included in the Opus 1 package? Or are there actually other, smoother legato articulations in the Pro Edition that were used in these demos?

I have been wondering the same thing too.

In fact, ironically, I NEVER get the legato strings to sound legato at all! They are always choppy as if I was playing a succession of sfz notes. Unlike the winds and brass which sound so beautiful right out of the box.

Been trying many different settings in the performance tool and it won't help too much. The only thing I can do is to add a long tail with the +RC patch but that makes the strings sound very fake and synthy.

Frankie

Still waiting for that MIDI file.............. [:(]

DG

I too have noticed a large varience in timbres from one string patch to the next. Trying to make 14v Leg, SUS, and sfz all sound like they came from the same session is nearly impossible. Perhaps when layered it isn't as noticable but when soloed out it doesn't sound right at all.
-Chris

@DG said:

Still waiting for that MIDI file.............. [:(]

DG

Right. Sorry DG, it was a quick test and I didn't save it or anything. I'll come up with one later when I have time, and post it here.

@DG said:

Still waiting for that MIDI file.............. [:(]

DG

Right. Sorry DG, it was a quick test and I didn't save it or anything. I'll come up with one later when I have time, and post it here.

No problem, I would just like to test it in the Pro Edition for you before I try to give advice.

DG

Hi Daryl, may I send you something which I do with the legato strings to check too?

I am really curious coz it's so strange that I can never really work with them out of the box.... unlike the wind and brass which work so flawless.

Thanks! [[;)]]

Frankie

I'll check this all tomorrow evening...

DG

I had also noticed that its somewhat a challenge to get string legatos to sound authentic unless you're layering it with the other sections. When writing several pieces lately using VI-14 or VC-8 legato performance patches, it had sounded quite synthetic until I added some brass and wind instruments on top. Luckily this hasn't proven a major problem to me, as I've yet to be in a situation where I've needed legato string sections playing solo.

OK, I've sent 3 files to Frankie, so it's now out of my hands [:)]

DG

Please don't check it with the Pro edition but with the Horizon Opus 1 files... (pleeze...)

I would really be glad to pay for a 1.1 version upgrade that would solve the mentioned problems with the legato strings.

Cheers and thanks for your otherwise excellent products!

@Peter Roos said:

Please don't check it with the Pro edition but with the Horizon Opus 1 files... (pleeze...)

I'm afraid that to do that will require me to re-plumb my system. I probably won't have time until the New Year.

DG

Hi all, Daryl and I did a little comparison between the Pro Ed & Opus Bundle and we both suspect having less samples per octave in Opus maybe one of the culprits.

Now here is the MIDI file I did with the sustained ff patch (non-legato), which sounds beautiful IMHO :

MIDI file
Opus 1 violin ff

Here is what it sounds when it's played with the legato patches (please note there are two notes too short now with the legato patch that make the melody disjointed. This is the sequence's problem, NOT VSL's problem, please be reminded! [:P] )

Opus 1 violin legato f
Pro Ed violin legato f

It is very obvious that the infamous "sharp timbre changing between notes" is less or actually not quite noticeable with the Pro Ed version, which makes us think less sample per octave in the Opus Bundle might have caused the problem.

Now it seems the only "quick" way to smooth the legato is to use the +RC patch instead so as to link the notes more fluently. Again, you will notice the Pro Ed sounds more convincing (as also since Daryl was changing the mod wheel data throughout the melody to add some nice flow, whereas I only set 40 to CC1 throughout)

Opus 1 violin legato +RC
Pro Ed violin legato +RC

I am not sure if there are more ways to help with Opus 1's deficiency. But one thing for certain, it won't sound this bad when it's a fully arranged sequence! [:D] I just did these demo clips solo and dry so as to show what we are really talking about.

Back to the MIDI file which I originally sequenced. It's really an irony to me.... that the sustain ff patch does sound more "legato" to the legato patch to me... [[:|]]

Thanks so much for your attention, and especially thanks Daryl for his time to render the mp3's for me with his Pro Ed! [[;)]]

I know there are veteran users out there that has better ways of using the legato patches! Looking forware to hearing good news! hehe

Cheers,
Frankie

As an addendum to all that I see that one of the problem is the change in timbre between the E and A strings. The only way round this is by using other patches such as sul A, but I can't remember whether or not they are in Opus. I also did a comparison with a couple of repeat notes thrown in for good measure and this improved things.

Regarding the MIDI file (and no disrespect intended to Frankie) the actual playing regarding velocity and overlaps was not very accurate, so things could be improved with this as well [:O]ops:

DG

@DG said:

Regarding the MIDI file (and no disrespect intended to Frankie) the actual playing regarding velocity and overlaps was not very accurate, so things could be improved with this as well

Oh yes I am aware of that actually! Sorry I should have mentioned this in my previous post too. One of my intentions was to test to see if I can record something with the legato violins right out of the box... that is... I did it with only one take and did NOT edit and tweak any MIDI data. And it seems it's quite impossible to do so. Unlike the wind and brass counterparts, which I usually can do some wonderful passages with just one take, perhaps just a little velocity edit to one or two notes.

And sorry Daryl I forgot about the repeated notes sample you sent to me! [:P]

And there is no Sul-A patch in Opus too.

Thanks! [[;)]]

Frankie

Here is another aexample of the huge timbre change that occurs in Opus1 legato (note the clip cuts off at the end but you get the idea).

http://www.dragonwind.org/Files/music/opus1_vi_legato.mp3

I tried layering it with Violas bit it still stood out.

[:(]

Chris

@dragonwind said:

Here is another aexample of the huge timbre change that occurs in Opus1 legato (note the clip cuts off at the end but you get the idea).

http://www.dragonwind.org/Files/music/opus1_vi_legato.mp3

I tried layering it with Violas bit it still stood out.

[:(]

Chris

Hmm... I think it sounds great? [:O]ops: