@cm said:

this _is_ the truth, joseph
another example: if you have already the pro edition complete orchestral package and all related horizons (solo, chamber, harps, french oboe, woodwind ens, epic horns) you will only have to pay 320 EUR for the extended content additionally to the 3.900 EUR for the standard content. this results in an *overall upgrade price* of 4220 EUR to the complete symphonic cube
christian

And then the cost of additional drives for storing it all.

Perhaps a new thread for suggestions and discussion?

It still seems unfair for users who own everything and have been a part of the VIP program since the First Edition.

I have a friend who owns EVERYTHING but the Concert Guitar and he's feeling pretty shafted right now. He really isn't saving any money at all. The total price is 10,990 dollars. When you add up what he's spend in VSL products plus the Standard edition + the Extended upgrade, he's spent well over 12 grand.

I am okay with it, since I only own the Solo Strings, but I can imagine this will ruffle some long time VSL users.

@Joseph Burrell said:

It still seems unfair for users who own everything and have been a part of the VIP program since the First Edition.

I have a friend who owns EVERYTHING but the Concert Guitar and he's feeling pretty shafted right now. He really isn't saving any money at all. The total price is 10,990 dollars. When you add up what he's spend in VSL products plus the Standard edition + the Extended upgrade, he's spent well over 12 grand.

I am okay with it, since I only own the Solo Strings, but I can imagine this will ruffle some long time VSL users.

Surely that means he only has to pay the standard + a VIP upgrade to the extended (which may be as low as $400)? This is nowhere near $10,000.

DG

He's already paid over 8 grand for VSL samples? Plus the 4 grand for the Standard library + the Extended upgrade. That's over 12 grand for what a new user would pay less than 11,000 dollars for.

@Joseph Burrell said:

He's already paid over 8 grand for VSL samples? Plus the 4 grand for the Standard library + the Extended upgrade. That's over 12 grand for what a new user would pay less than 11,000 dollars for.

Ah, I see what you mean. However, having used the samples for the last year and a half I am not complaining that the upgrade is not free, as it would have to be to in order to be the same price as for new users. I can't think of any software that makes the total sum spent the same as the price for new users, after all us oldies have had plenty of use out of the product. Also, if the new sample count is almost twice what it is in Pro Edition, shouldn't your friend be paying another $8000 for it, never mind the new programming, sample player etc?
I'm afraid that I have no sympathy for your friend. When I trade my car in for a new one I don't cry about the fact that first time buyers of the new model will have paid less than I have in total.

DG

DG,

Your point is well taken but there needs to be a middle ground. By some calculations there is a penalty for being a longtime user, not even a small discount.

So while I add up my 1st ed., chambers, etc., I don't expect that the upgrade will be:

(New price) minus (old prices) = VIP price

I DO, however expect there to be a significant incentive to being a long time member. Sure, we've had the great fortune of having these remarkable tools available for a good while but we've also been subjected to the growing pains of the perf tool, etc.

To make a member pay more than a new customer is just plain silly.

I will cheerfully pay for upgrades to the new integrated player/interface. I would rather not pay full price for a 24 bit upgrade though a small upgrade for that COULD be appropriate depending on the amount. I have the samples already. VSL does too. They just gave us 16 bit versions to be more RAM friendly. To charge us again for these samples that they already sold us is against their policy.

Clark

Well, we'll just have to agree to disagree, after all, the cost, even for a full upgrade, is not that large [:)]

DG

I know it's early days, but could Herb and Co. state somewhere exactly how much VI will cost?

I've been reading this thread and the main VI price page and am now completely confused. Is it 2, 3 or 11 grand?

VI is stunning, but the price structure is, well, numbing... so far.

Or perhaps some of us musicians just aren't too bright. [:)]

Its been confirmed that the total package (standard+extended) will cost $10,990 US dollars.

The standard library, EVERYONE must purchase, with the VIP discount being a part of the Extended upgrade.

So everyone's in for a $4,620 purchase, no matter if you're new or not.

TBH, it's a huge step up from its predecessor, and no other library can touch it. It's just too be to be an 'upgrade'. So I think the price is justified.

Anyway: are the current prices the typcal 'full price', or is there an introductory offer of some kind? THe page titled 'introductory offer' doesn't seem to have one for the Cube, just that we'd pay half now + half later. Am i missing something? Reckon i should just give it some time...

Over 500gigs, 24 bit samples, an instrument that seems to be as intuitive as we could hope for, automated articulation, light years ahead of the nearest competition, a company that takes giant leaps in a single bound, loads of free samples for users, and regular additions. In additiion to a pricing structure that has been fair, with generous discounts for users. And a sample library that you will be able to exploit almost to its entirety, with automation taken over most of the input work, giving us more time to write and earn more money? (If we're good enough).
And the likelyhood of the same generous additions in the future, no doubt with additional patches to come, more and more articulations.
On top of that you get a free symphonic organ as well!

The discount calculator isn't up yet, and many of you are already jumping to conclusions that may be wildly inaccurate, computationally wrong, and with no shadow of patience to wait and find out the facts.

I'm with DG on this one. Many of you have had much use and made money out of VSL, as i hope all of you will now and in the future. Would you get a new for new price in any product industry at any time? Seems premature and a case of wanting something for nothing to me.
Did Logic provide a free upgrade? Did Sibelius tell all those version 3 users they could have the next version for nothing?
I've seen any posts here commenting about the limitations of software, VST/AU, etc. Now you have a chance to get by most of that, and you want it for next to nothing?
Back to reality.

Alex.

I don't really care since I don't own anything but the Solo Strings. I can just imagine the heartburn many long time VSL users have. My friend was pretty miffed, and I understand, since there was basically no advantage to him giving VSL his money over the years. He's been a long time supporter and has every product but the Concert Guitar, and he doesn't get any benefit from it at all.

So, I'm just laying it out. They don't have to listen or care. Just know that not everyone is happy with the pricing structure, and I for one can understand since just about anyone can get a better deal on it than the long standing VSL users.

@Joseph Burrell said:

. there was basically no advantage to him giving VSL his money over the years. He's been a long time supporter and has every product but the Concert Guitar, and he doesn't get any benefit from it at all.

No consumer in the free market buys a product that has 'no advantage', except your friend who seems to have bought the collection.

He got exactly what he paid for on the day: the best product of its kind on the market.

Sorry to be so retaliatory Sir, and I understand, respect, and accept your POV as valid, but i'm finding all this criticism over the SC's prices unfair and a little hard to swallow.

As someone else said, "we'll have to agree to disagree."

I don't particularly care, I'm just seeing his side of the arguement. It just seemed to go against the policy of 'buy it now and you'll save in the end.'

@Joseph Burrell said:

As someone else said, "we'll have to agree to disagree."

On one hand, you're probably right [:)] .

on the other hand:

-cost of CSC to new user: e5,300
-cost of CSC to PE owner: e3,900

anyway, it's up to everyone how badly they want it! So for the sake of peace, i'll drop it.

I think First Edition should be un-discontinued and sold for 500 USD/EUR or so.

Some of us can afford 5000+ USD/EUR for VI? Good.

But if one can't, it makes no sense, to me, to negate him a "discontinued" orchestra. He will be out of the game anyway and VSL will take no profit from poorest musicians.

@Joseph Burrell said:

I don't really care since I don't own anything but the Solo Strings. I can just imagine the heartburn many long time VSL users have. My friend was pretty miffed, and I understand, since there was basically no advantage to him giving VSL his money over the years. He's been a long time supporter and has every product but the Concert Guitar, and he doesn't get any benefit from it at all.

So, I'm just laying it out. They don't have to listen or care. Just know that not everyone is happy with the pricing structure, and I for one can understand since just about anyone can get a better deal on it than the long standing VSL users.

For goodness sake, your friend does get an advantage; he get's the extended library for next to nothing. How much clearer can that be? [8-)]

DG

Only after dropping $13,000 dollars? That's free? When I can buy it for 11 grand? How's that a benefit to him? It isn't.

And anyway, you don't understand the point of the arguement at all.

The point is, he felt that by buying into VSL years ago and supporting them through all this time that he eventually would end up better off.

Adding up the cost of what he's paid in and what someone can come in off the street and pay, he ends up worse. That's his gripe and I understand it completely. It was said long ago that users buying in early would never pay more than new users. It appears that isn't true at all. Since new users can effectively buy the whole shooting match right now and save more than he can. I don't care about the extended library discount since when you add it all up, he still paid more in the end. That's the bottom line and that's the arguement.

I'm done with it.

@Joseph Burrell said:

And anyway, you don't understand the point of the arguement at all.

The point is, he felt that by buying into VSL years ago and supporting them through all this time that he eventually would end up better off.

Adding up the cost of what he's paid in and what someone can come in off the street and pay, he ends up worse. That's his gripe and I understand it completely. It was said long ago that users buying in early would never pay more than new users. It appears that isn't true at all. Since new users can effectively buy the whole shooting match right now and save more than he can. I don't care about the extended library discount since when you add it all up, he still paid more in the end. That's the bottom line and that's the arguement.

I'm done with it.

No, I'm afraid that you don't understand. Your friend still has the Pro Edition; you don't, even if you both buy the extended version. It's like still having the old car when you do the trade in for a new one. Having used the samples for years must have some financial implication. For example, I've been using Sibelius since 1993, so I'm bound to have paid more to the company than someone who has just bought Sibelius 4. So in effect I have paid well over £2000 for a product that is worth (to the new customer) £500.

However I will admit that if I was doing the pricing for VSL, I would have given existing customers a discount on the Standard content and less of a discount on the Extended content, but in the end it you buy it all it will probably make no difference.

DG