I noticed many of the demos list 2nd violins, but I don't see any 2nd violins listed in any of the string packages. So, how are the 2nd violins created? Are they just violas by another name?
Thanks,
Andrew
Thanks,
Andrew
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2nd violins?
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Jun 23, 2005, 7:13 PM last edited Oct 15, 2023, 4:43 PMJun 23, 2005, 7:13 PM last edited Oct 15, 2023, 4:43 PM
@AndrewS said:
I noticed many of the demos list 2nd violins, but I don't see any 2nd violins listed in any of the string packages. So, how are the 2nd violins created? Are they just violas by another name?
Thanks,
Andrew
Do a search before someone kills you [8-)]
DG
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lol so true, people on this forum get so worked up about this.
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[[[[:D]]]] [[[[:D]]]] [[[[:D]]]]
BTW: Is it illegal to do smiley-only-posts ?? [[[[:D]]]]
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[[[:D]]] [[[:D]]] [[[:D]]] [6]
- not if you use a little variety
Rob
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don't think anyone actually answered your question:
it seems that, no, there are no instruments called 2nd violin. Just use a violin of some sort, panned a little different and slightly quieter than your first violin. The only time this becomes a problem and a danger to beware of is when firsts and seconds are playing a passage in unison: if you use the same instrument playing the same notes, you'll have phasing problems (the sound will not be right, it will be glassy and erratic).
Get around this either by eliminating the doubling in your recording (must make the single line louder and fatter) or by ensuring that the two violin parts use different patches.
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I have tried the search engine and it came back with bubkus. In fact I just tried again...and again and again, but the results don't go beyond one page. It just gives me a message about no results for the query, or something, when I try to go to the next page.
Why wouild this topic be so touchy? I'm only asking how others are implementing 2nd violins. Is it one of those closely guarded trade secrets and people are sore about it getting out?
Anyway, if anyone can atleast direct me to a relevant thread, since I can't seem to find one with the search engine, I would appreciate it.
Thanks,
Andy
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Gugliel, I didn't see your post while I was writing mine.
Thanks for sharing! [:)]
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AndrewS.
It would be great to have 2nd violin samples, as well as 2 horn 2 cl 2 tpt 2 etc. but it would add up in terms of gigs...
Probably the addition of second Violins would be the most valuable if one had to choose. It would give unison lines a richness that cannot be obtained presently by omiting unison notes.
Be waiting for VSL team to offer this option. Are there any plans?
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Hello all,
you have quite a few options to get a wide variety of string sounds with the Vienna Symphonic Library. One of it being to add a "first" violin with our Solo Strings to emphasize the phrasing.
To get a second violin section you can either use the same violin section, use the smaller section you find in our Chamber Strings, or also use the violas, if you want an alternative sound.
The placement and volume in the mix makes the difference.
I will also try and find some related topics, any help is very much appreciated.
Best wishes, and sorry for the delay,
Paul
Paul Kopf Head of Product Marketing, Social Media and Support -
It's a bit odd without having a reliable search funtion in the forum to read about this. I and others already mentioned that some time ago to the VSL staff amongst other things that are also still around, I hope they'll fix it one day.
So here some threads where quite a few opinions are in:
http://community.vsl.co.at/viewtopic.php?t=4602
http://community.vsl.co.at/viewtopic.php?t=4491
http://community.vsl.co.at/viewtopic.php?t=4294
http://community.vsl.co.at/viewtopic.php?t=3911
http://community.vsl.co.at/viewtopic.php?t=3671
http://community.vsl.co.at/viewtopic.php?t=3755
http://community.vsl.co.at/viewtopic.php?t=3066
http://community.vsl.co.at/viewtopic.php?t=2325
Despite the less interesting bitching stuff that arises sometimes around this topic I think they are very interesting threads.
All the best,
PolarBear
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Jun 24, 2005, 8:33 PM last edited Oct 15, 2023, 4:43 PMJun 24, 2005, 8:33 PM last edited Oct 15, 2023, 4:43 PM
@Paul said:
Hello all,
you have quite a few options to get a wide variety of string sounds with the Vienna Symphonic Library. One of it being to add a "first" violin with our Solo Strings to emphasize the phrasing.
To get a second violin section you can either use the same violin section, use the smaller section you find in our Chamber Strings, or also use the violas, if you want an alternative sound.
The placement and volume in the mix makes the difference.
I will also try and find some related topics, any help is very much appreciated.
Best wishes, and sorry for the delay,
Paul
I think that one of the most useful things would be to record mp and mf layers for the legato violins. Then it could become a proper cross-fade instrument and would almost negate the need for 2nd violins.
DG
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Thanks for the links PolarBear
i found the first one particulary interesting and humourous, 2nd violins [6]
big topic...
best to all
Andres
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In one of the other threads, I had suggested using the viola section or the violins from the chamber strings set.
I also suggested recording a couple of new patches: One would have the violins play with up and down bowing at the same time. This could include sustain, detache .05, 0.3, and staccto. Some orchestras used this technique. My other suggestion was to have a delayed vibrato patch.
Adding a few of these type of variants could give the user more choices on how to approach the situation. It would be more practical than recording an entire 2nd violin section.
And now I would like to address an issue that I am concerned with: there are rumors that the string recordings have all been completed, and that any future library release would only contain the current samples re-edited. I find this difficult to believe. I hope someone will put this rumor to rest.
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Jul 7, 2005, 8:20 AM last edited Oct 15, 2023, 4:43 PMJul 7, 2005, 8:20 AM last edited Oct 15, 2023, 4:43 PM
@esperlad said:
.....I hope someone will put this rumor to rest.
me and my team are recording more or less daily VSL samples in the silent stage and i testify: this rumor is completely stupid and wrong. there may be other companies out there which hope we stop working, to all this fellows let me say: we're still at the beginning!
have a nice day, michael
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Wunderbar! I am so happy to hear this great news!
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Jul 11, 2005, 6:44 AM last edited Oct 15, 2023, 4:43 PMJul 11, 2005, 6:44 AM last edited Oct 15, 2023, 4:43 PM
@Paul said:
Hello all,
To get a second violin section you can either use the same violin section, use the smaller section you find in our Chamber Strings, or also use the violas, if you want an alternative sound.
Paul
Paul-
Are you suggesting that we use violas instead of violins? There are three big problems with this technique:
1.) Violins 1 and 2 play in unison VERY OFTEN. Look at a score some time, and you will see that the need for 2nd violins is very well justified, and not just a 'whim' of the VSL customers.
2.) Using Viola instead of violin creates an incorrect and unrealistic violin sound becuase, it is after all, NOT a violin section. [*-)]
3.) This just shifts the phasing problem away from the violins and into the violas. Now what if the viola and violin 2 sections want to play in unison? You would have the same phasing problem you had before.
So, in my opinion VSL should have (and needs to) record a second violin section. Because I know that they will not do this, even though there is great need and justification for it, one must come up with a workaround. The best one is to create custom samples in Giga editor by shifting up 1/2 step the 1st violin section. This only works with instruments that are chromatically sampled (not Opus 1), and sounds pretty artificial if you have to shift up the new instrument up a 3rd or so. So basically, it is impossible to create a realistic sounding unison 1st and 2nd violin section using only Opus 1. This is unfortunate, and could be easily fixed by VSL, in my opinion.
-mvanbebber
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I use Garritan 1st Violins as my 2nd Violins. I will also double them with muted violins or Roland Strings for unison needs.
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As I have suggested, the violins from the Chamber strings *will work*. I have Sonic Implants, and used the trills with VSL which worked.
If some additonal patches are recorded such as delayed vibrato, the isssue should not exist.