[[:)]]
Hey Evan, what's the CHANNUKAH story?
Is it related to a specific chapter in the old testament?
Is it related to a specific date? I donno much about it really.

A friend told me that nowadays in the States 'Merry Christmas' was perceived by 'some' as 'politically uncorrect'... Because it was a reference to Christianity only. I really donno what to think about this... I thought he was parodying the situation..
For me it seems that Christmas has become just as much a pagan event as a religious one. ("Father X-mas" doesn't sound like a religious revelation)

Are people really upset about this kind of stuff? Do they feel left out because there's "Christ" in "Christmas"? What's the deal?
I was wondering if you were trying to say something in particular about this new social transformation via your post title Evan? Or maybe it doesn't have anything to do with it [[:)]]

Anyway, Happy or merry (whatever you guys want) I'm in it if there's a jingle bell along the way.

Btw whose been using the VSL Jingle bell recently?


[[;)]]

As far as I'm concerned, it's not politically incorrect to wish people a merry anything. [:)]

@Nick Batzdorf said:

As far as I'm concerned, it's not politically incorrect to wish people a merry anything. [:)]

Yeah, when pupils wish me a happy holiday, I don't get offended because I'm still working...! [H]

DG

Maybe the "politically correct" thing that I've heard about is only relevant in some circumstances. Radio or TV commercials.

Oh, you're absolutely right that some people take offense. I'm just saying that I think it's silly, given the history of western civilization. You don't have to be Christian or even religious to have a merry Christmas!

@charl said:

[:)]
Hey Evan, what's the CHANNUKAH story?
Is it related to a specific chapter in the old testament?
Is it related to a specific date? I dunno much about it really.

It comes from a religious book called the Macabees. it was written 200 years before the birth of the jews' ancestor and well known rabbi, Jesus. In it are stories about how the Jews fought for their right to worship god. I can't remember if the Macabbes is a book in a King's Bible, or if it is special to Torah or jewish texts only. I seem to recall it's in Catholic scriptures. Anyway, the Channukah celebration is in remembrance of what Jew's call the Miracle of Light, which is an event that occurred in Jewish history. Although like all stories, it has been embellished over millennia (not unlike how other stories get blown out of proportion, such as a great man being the son of a god, and spawning a religion which was an excuse for power, control, war and bloodshed for many centuries [;)] what a whopper! and everyone at that time had no choice but to believe it. Duh.).

So the story as brief as I can tell it is:

The Assyrian Greeks were cruelly forcing the Jews to bow down to their Gods (plural), and finally the Jews could take no more and joined in a freedom fight. Apparently the Jews were outnumbered and out-armed, but they used strategical tactics that led to victory and a reclaiming of their own temple. Apparently the temple was disgusting. It had been a place where the Greeks had sacrificed animals and held other Pagan rituals.

Once the Temple was clean, they were ready to light their altar which brings their holy spirit's warmth to them, and is central to their religion. However, there was not enough oil to last more than a day. Perhaps there was even NONE, and it was only a wet wick. Well they sent a messenger to bring more oil. He came a dissappointing 8 days later with it. However, a miracle had possibly occured while the messenger was out. Everyone watched in amazement as the flame on the wick kept burning day after day after day. It was truly amazing, and mounted more amazement with each passing day. Surely it was something small, but soon, it seemed to be a sign, an omen, that their victory was blessed, perhaps with eternal light. You can imagine how it went. Eventually you start reading quite a bit into it. Perhaps it was a mark from the divine. This is what Jews believe, or share their heart's blessings with.

We call this the MIRACLE OF LIGHT.

Had their been no victory of the Macabees(the group who led the jews in the crusade), there may not have been the eventual spawning off of religions such as Christianity or Islam. For it was the victory which brought the acceptance of worshipping a single god in spirit, something that Jesus the rabbi preached dear to his heart.

So in remembrance of this greatest battle, the battle for freedom of religion essentially, the Jews light a candleholder with 8 slots for candles and 1 slot for a lighter (the miracle candle of light), and we light one more candle each night for eight nights, to "feel" the miracle of how long the single flame lasted and how each successful night it became brighter in our minds and hearts and souls. This is in remembrance of an eight day window of miracle really. Many cunning jews have added other folklore around the celebration. And to help kids not feel pressured by their friends getting gifts from Santa Claus, the Rabbi's decided it would be fine to give the kids gifts too during this period, so long as there was a connection between the story and the gift giving. So the solution became to give 8 gifts, one each night, to complement the feeling of the miracle and reinforce it in our young ones, the warm feeling that miracles bring.

continued ...

@Another User said:

Are people really upset about this kind of stuff?

I dunno. How would a Christian feel if I wished them a Happy Channukah? It's probably annoying, and pretty much rude because it's condescending.

But I don't care, I don't consider Christianity to be that progressive of a religion or philosophy. So those who wish me a Merry Christmas are in a state of ignorant bliss if you will, and I just humbly reinforce that in them by saying, "You too", which is something my religion, Buddhism and Hinduism teaches ... love not hate (quick amendment, I am not reverse logically implying that Christianity does not teach the same, but that Judiasm at least affords one the abilty to be humble, respecting, and accepting of other's faiths ... something a Christian wishing people MERRY CHRISTMAS is certainly NOT doing.)

Evan Evans

I don´t know. Where I come from, Bayern (Bavaria), everybody says "Grüß Gott" as greeting or welcome. Since I´m not religious at all and also lack completely any religious education I at some point stopped saying "Grüß Gott" (which is "say hello to God", which is ridiculous anyway). But things became so complicated because I always had to explain why I say something else than "Grüß Gott" that finally I was annoyed and stopped thinking about this issue. So I don´t mind if somebody wishes me a Happy Chanukah or Merry Christmas, I don´t care anyway. But I wouldn´t think this is rude. I just don´t care about.

I sincerely hope this is not becoming a religious quarrel here. Nothing is more annoying than that.

ha ha! That's great mathis. A view of the flip side of the coin!

Btw, I am highly unreligious myself. If anything I follow the philosphy of Judaism which is similar to Buddhism really. It's an "ism" anyway, and not an "ology" or an "ity". [;)]

Evan Evans

Evan, thanks for those interesting details... [:)]

I wouldn't say I agree with your 'very generalised' views on Christians though.

To make make it short. If someone wishes me a "Merry Christmas' I will generally understand it as something nice & pretty simple in it's intention.
Wether it's a hardcore Christian, a person with a Christian backround, or just the guy who's selling the Christmas tree and doesn't care much about Jesus as 'Son of God'.

I see Christmas as just an other good time for seeing my family & friends and I understand that a alot of people are happy to share with others (including me) the fact that they're looking forward to those times.

@Another User said:

So those who wish me a Merry Christmas are in a state of ignorant bliss if you will, and I just humbly reinforce that in them by saying, "You too".

This makes me want to ask you Evan : What about those who wish you a Happy Birthday? [[;)]]

Regards
Charl

@Another User said:

It basically means "You exist, I exist, We exist, and we mutually recognise that by participating in a more or less sophisticated verbal 'ritual'.

Well you are obviously of the naive camp. The ones who celebrate Christmas because that's how they were raised. You aren't particularly religious (going to Church every week for instance). This "type" of Christian I spoke of. But just because it "seems" to be a social event, doesn't mean it is.

... continued ...

@Another User said:

This makes me want to ask you Evan : What about those who wish you a Happy Birthday? [[[;)]]]
Charl

I don't understand. Explain this. I almost get it, but it's going over my head. Some kind of inverse logic, but I am too tired. [[;)]]

Evan Evans

Uiuiui.... [8-)] my bet is 8 pages ...

OK, one thing I have to say to Evan: Evan, although I had no religious education at all I apparently understand Christianity better than you do. (But mind you, I´m talking about the religion, not about what the church made out of it.)
However, I have no interest to discuss this further here. Good night.

Evan.

I'm not a Christian.
Maybe you've heard of "advaita vedanta", a specific branch of Hinduism. I regularly study a specific spiritual lineage from that tradition. This would be my cup of tea. But I've always been interested in, practiced, & liked Buddhism...

I'm neither naive nor in any camp (why do you want to be in a camp?)

Simply you & I think differently on the fundamentals of the subject. No need to rewrite every step of the ladder to endlessly come to this conclusion.
You think wishing a merry christmas is not a social event. This doesn't mean it isn't.
I celebrate Christmas because I enjoy it.

Clearly you have a problem with Christians.. Some Christians... as you say. To the point that you see them where they're not. And hear things they're not saying..
Maybe it's what they represent that's a problem... As I said, I can understand.

Biased... [[:)]] Well I agree with you that you are. I can feel it in every line of your post. And you seem to not mind that at all..

You say your post isn't a reaction. Allow me to 'totally subjectively' think it is.(Bombs awaaaaay !!! [[[:|]]] ) I think it's a very subtle reaction to all the 'disgusting' merry Christmases you've had to endure from those condescending Christians that you get to meet more often than I. [[;)]] [[[:|]]]
However your post might ALSO be what you're saying it is...

About the Happy Shannukah. Your first post sais "I wish everyone a Happy Shannukah", so I thought it was intended to ... every one..

Now I'm very very very disapointed to hear I misunderstood you and that you aint wishing me anything....
But at least I know what Shannukah's about now.

@Another User said:

I am not sure how you can take a Channukah wish. Just a little confused on that.

So am I now...

Uhmmm...

Obviously, Evan, I thought this was just a simple socialising thing. Like Merry Christmas... Greetings & stuff for the new year...

Oh dear..

BTW. What if people wish you a merry 'Jesusmas'. Is that okay.



I know :

Merry "FILL THIS WITH WHAT YOU LIKE BEST", Evan.


BTW : I think you're half nuts (in a good sense).

You have a MASSSSIIIIIIVE ego, and yet you're nearly volatile. It sure makes reading your posts interesting.


Regards Charl

[[:)]]

Evan, bubbeleh

I hope you understand a little Yiddish:

'Du kannst nicht auf meinem rucken pishen unt mir sagen class es regen ist.'

class = dass [[;)]]

Ich dank aych zeyer [:D]

@drg said:

Evan, bubbeleh

I hope you understand a little Yiddish:

'Du kannst nicht auf meinem rucken pishen unt mir sagen class es regen ist.'

[:D] [:D] [:D]

For the dictionary users:
"Du kannst nicht auf meinen Rücken pissen und mir sagen, daß es Regen ist."
But it´s of course German now. but very funny.

That expression is also known in English.

@Another User said:

BTW : I think you're half nuts (in a good sense).
You have a MASSSSIIIIIIVE ego, and yet you're nearly volatile. It sure makes reading your posts interesting.
Regards Charl
[[:)]]

LOL! You said it bro! That was the best thing I read from you all week. Isn't it great when we just speak our minds? LOL! Now I truly know you. No veiled responses, that's my motto.

Evan Evans