Evan, thanks for those interesting details... [:)]

I wouldn't say I agree with your 'very generalised' views on Christians though.

To make make it short. If someone wishes me a "Merry Christmas' I will generally understand it as something nice & pretty simple in it's intention.
Wether it's a hardcore Christian, a person with a Christian backround, or just the guy who's selling the Christmas tree and doesn't care much about Jesus as 'Son of God'.

I see Christmas as just an other good time for seeing my family & friends and I understand that a alot of people are happy to share with others (including me) the fact that they're looking forward to those times.

@Another User said:

So those who wish me a Merry Christmas are in a state of ignorant bliss if you will, and I just humbly reinforce that in them by saying, "You too".

This makes me want to ask you Evan : What about those who wish you a Happy Birthday? [[;)]]

Regards
Charl

@Another User said:

It basically means "You exist, I exist, We exist, and we mutually recognise that by participating in a more or less sophisticated verbal 'ritual'.

Well you are obviously of the naive camp. The ones who celebrate Christmas because that's how they were raised. You aren't particularly religious (going to Church every week for instance). This "type" of Christian I spoke of. But just because it "seems" to be a social event, doesn't mean it is.

... continued ...

@Another User said:

This makes me want to ask you Evan : What about those who wish you a Happy Birthday? [[[;)]]]
Charl

I don't understand. Explain this. I almost get it, but it's going over my head. Some kind of inverse logic, but I am too tired. [[;)]]

Evan Evans

Uiuiui.... [8-)] my bet is 8 pages ...

OK, one thing I have to say to Evan: Evan, although I had no religious education at all I apparently understand Christianity better than you do. (But mind you, I´m talking about the religion, not about what the church made out of it.)
However, I have no interest to discuss this further here. Good night.

Evan.

I'm not a Christian.
Maybe you've heard of "advaita vedanta", a specific branch of Hinduism. I regularly study a specific spiritual lineage from that tradition. This would be my cup of tea. But I've always been interested in, practiced, & liked Buddhism...

I'm neither naive nor in any camp (why do you want to be in a camp?)

Simply you & I think differently on the fundamentals of the subject. No need to rewrite every step of the ladder to endlessly come to this conclusion.
You think wishing a merry christmas is not a social event. This doesn't mean it isn't.
I celebrate Christmas because I enjoy it.

Clearly you have a problem with Christians.. Some Christians... as you say. To the point that you see them where they're not. And hear things they're not saying..
Maybe it's what they represent that's a problem... As I said, I can understand.

Biased... [[:)]] Well I agree with you that you are. I can feel it in every line of your post. And you seem to not mind that at all..

You say your post isn't a reaction. Allow me to 'totally subjectively' think it is.(Bombs awaaaaay !!! [[[:|]]] ) I think it's a very subtle reaction to all the 'disgusting' merry Christmases you've had to endure from those condescending Christians that you get to meet more often than I. [[;)]] [[[:|]]]
However your post might ALSO be what you're saying it is...

About the Happy Shannukah. Your first post sais "I wish everyone a Happy Shannukah", so I thought it was intended to ... every one..

Now I'm very very very disapointed to hear I misunderstood you and that you aint wishing me anything....
But at least I know what Shannukah's about now.

@Another User said:

I am not sure how you can take a Channukah wish. Just a little confused on that.

So am I now...

Uhmmm...

Obviously, Evan, I thought this was just a simple socialising thing. Like Merry Christmas... Greetings & stuff for the new year...

Oh dear..

BTW. What if people wish you a merry 'Jesusmas'. Is that okay.



I know :

Merry "FILL THIS WITH WHAT YOU LIKE BEST", Evan.


BTW : I think you're half nuts (in a good sense).

You have a MASSSSIIIIIIVE ego, and yet you're nearly volatile. It sure makes reading your posts interesting.


Regards Charl

[[:)]]

Evan, bubbeleh

I hope you understand a little Yiddish:

'Du kannst nicht auf meinem rucken pishen unt mir sagen class es regen ist.'

class = dass [[;)]]

Ich dank aych zeyer [:D]

@drg said:

Evan, bubbeleh

I hope you understand a little Yiddish:

'Du kannst nicht auf meinem rucken pishen unt mir sagen class es regen ist.'

[:D] [:D] [:D]

For the dictionary users:
"Du kannst nicht auf meinen Rücken pissen und mir sagen, daß es Regen ist."
But it´s of course German now. but very funny.

That expression is also known in English.

@Another User said:

BTW : I think you're half nuts (in a good sense).
You have a MASSSSIIIIIIVE ego, and yet you're nearly volatile. It sure makes reading your posts interesting.
Regards Charl
[[:)]]

LOL! You said it bro! That was the best thing I read from you all week. Isn't it great when we just speak our minds? LOL! Now I truly know you. No veiled responses, that's my motto.

Evan Evans

@mathis said:

For the dictionary users:
"Du kannst nicht auf meinen Rücken pissen und mir sagen, daß es Regen ist."
But it´s of course German now. but very funny.

In other words, ... "there's no truth like the unknown to an intelligent person."

Evan Evans

Evan,

Chari thinks you're 'half nuts (in a nice sense)' and you seem to agree but let's give credit where credit is due - in the remaining half, you are truly a wit!

@Another User said:

Posted by Evan.
No veiled responses, that's my motto

A good motto I think. I sincerely try to stay away from veiled responses.

If you now think you trulely know me that's fine. It seems you inferred that from something I said...(the 'half nut' thing)[:D]
Don't take it for something different than what it is in it's context : A simple way of saying I can very much appreciate someone who's very different fom me..
If that's how you took it, cool.

BTW. this has nothing to to with giving credit or anything...

Take care All.

Charl

@charl said:

As I see things, a simple phone call from a friend is a pagan ritual. What we're doing here is a pagan ritual.

Um, I think that is a very dangerous thing for you to think. Your dismissing of the intrinsic value that things of this world have, and how they are connected to each other and cause positive and negative reactions borders on Schizophrenic. To dismiss engaging in a pagan ritual becuase we are "all made up of atoms" is certainly highly irresponsible, and to think you might systemically get away with it puts you in a dangerous state of awareness that you might consider adjusting for the sake of your fellow soulmates and ultimately for your own sake. You must "own it" for it to have any merit. Until one can feel what sacrifice is, one would be empty.

Evan Evans

Hi Folks

I entered this forum in order to spend time thinking about the wonderful world of the VSL.Is it really necessary to insert religion here.

Have a happy day

all the best
Laurence

Evan,

Your post raises some interesting questions that could fill at least 5 or 6 threads. I'm just not sure they're relevant to what I've been wanting to say, but I suppose you thought they were..

I do feel your formulation is (for me) too 'concentrated' for the range of it's content. So I have no clear vision of what you're exactly trying to say here.
Obviously you & I haven't got all day on the forum so it's okay, I understand you wanna make your point 'succint'. (I donno if this word exists in english. I simply mean : giving the essence of an idea. Maybe 'sparse' would be a good traduction)

Also, I'm not sure we use 'pagan' in the same way.
The definition of 'pagan' has always been a very long discussion. You probably know this..
Just so you know, I've used pagan in the sense of "agnostic" or maybe "secular" if you wish. I'd even add : Non-religious.
If this wasn't how you understood me, I apologise for not being clear enough.
English isn't my natural language.

Just to make sure we're still on track here let me just remind you that the point I've been simply raising is that "Merry Christmas" is mainly a social act in it's intent. Some people will react badly to it because they see much more than that. Obviously what they see is their 'personal' reality. A relative one. That, I respect because they are experiencing it and I see it as a truth.

You may find my point of view 'dangerous'. I think the opposite.

If for you "Merry Christmas" is very different than what I genuinely believe it to be in the immediacy of it's intent, fine. If you feel disgust, fine.I'm in no way dismissing this. To the contrary.

I don't need to tell you there's a very REAL difference between what you 'see' or 'understand' from a situation and the reality of the situation itself.
That's why I agree with you on the fact that we all have a responsability -all the time- in our interactions with others.

The question is 'what is responsability'.
I believe responsability is a full acceptance of the results of one's actions. (Even if this may lead to new & different actions)
I have no doubt that there's always some one out there who has reasons to react negatively to something you're saying or doing... That's Inevitable.

A good heart, and clear intentions would be my motto. (But it's not always achievable.)

I don't think you can blame people for wishing other people a Merry Christmas. The best you can do is ask them not to wish YOU a merry Christmas, & tell them why it's important for your personal confort that they don't.


Evan it seems you're extrapolating alot from what I'm saying.

I don't need to get away with anything.
I don't think things have an intrinsic value. Only a relative one.
Merit is not what I'm after.
I may be totally Schizo but in no way related to what you're implying here. [[;)]]
But thanx anyway if you were genuine in your post.I welcome any kind of advice.


Actually, come to think of it, I wonder if your post says more about me or more about you ...

Regards
Charl

______________________________________________________________

Laurence,

I don't think we're inserting religion here really...
Well... I don't think I am.
Read my posts [:)]

Maybe Evan has a different view on this... I donno.

Alright, well no big deal. Obviously it's impossible to get very intelligent over the internet.

Best holiday wishes,
Evan Evans

@Another User said:

Obviously it's impossible to get very intelligent over the internet.

Could mean different things I guess..

I first thought it was condescending but it might not actually..


I think you've done your best to get through. Given the number of lines. [[;)]]

Charl

I meant to carry an intelligent conversation. One where what is said is not misconstrued.

Evan Evans