Greetings...newbie here,

I would like to NOT learn a new sequencer/recorder.
I have been away for 3 years...now learning new jargon, who's who, etc.
I'm working on a decision tree to get re-situated.
Is the following correct?

If I stay MOTU DP4 single computer:

a. Kontakt = limited to Horizon with undefined wait for Opus 1

else

b. EXS= access to all sets with performance limited by cpu/ram



Else, if I stay MOTU DP 4 with 2 computers:

a. Mac 1 = DP4 seq/rec Mac 2 = Kontact (limited library)or EXS (full library)

else

b. Mac 1 = DP4 seq/rec PC 1 = Giga (full library)



Else, if I abandon MAC:

a. Start over...learn all new software (ugh).

CORRECT?

Thanks...and any tips for an old timer starting over.

cheers/blessings,

dnb

dnb,

For clarity, the EXS VSL Tool Instruments only work within LOGIC.

Evan Evans

Thanks.

I'm leaning toward staying DP4 on iMac 1.8gig and taking the plunge into Giga for the sample engine on a PC.

Else, LOGIC.

Would you rather learn Giga or LOGIC from scratch?
If Giga...suggestion for rig?

Thanks


c/b

dnb

dnb,

DP and Giga (which is what I use) is a very good fit. Remember that Giga is a glorified outboard sampler that doesn't require tons of knowledge to run on a basic level. The learning curve is really dealing with the world of PC's. It's true that you can get very deep into Giga but you don't really have too (particularly if you have a library with the quality of VSL- you can just load and play.)

In short: why learn a counter intuitive sequencing program (Logic) when you already are up on an excellent one (DP.) You just need a host for streaming large samples and Giga is a proven one that connects to your Mac like any other sampler you've ever used.

My humble opinion anyway,

Dave Connor

P.S. The Gigastudio area here is full of info for various rigs for GS3 (which is the way to go.)

All the forces in the universe tells me that it's easier to learn GIGA than LOGIC. Well, I should say though, it's easier to use GIGA than LOGIC. Both may have a similar learning curve, but after using DP (the 2nd most logical sequencer) I'd have to say you would feel bogged down using LOGIC (the most ILLOGICAL seq app).

I have to say that calling LOGIC "LOGIC" was probably the most asinine mistake in the history of marketing. Right up there with the HOOVER vacuum ad that was pulled with the marquee line "IT SUCKS." LOGIC is as far from LOGICAL as it gets. Hands down. There are shareware MIDI apps built from the ground up with more logic than LOGIC. Basically nothing in LOGIC actually "logically" works with each other. The programmers have instead programmed each instance of possibility for each given situation. Nothing connects via modular or logical design. One type of move may work on one screen but not another. This has caused the app to grow to bloated size as code is written for each permutation of the user experience. They combatted this with more sophisticated code crunching (compiling), but it is NOT immune to crashing due to "exception" errors.

The most logical seq app ever released was OPCODE'S Vision line, that I aptly nicknamed the "one-click see-if-it-works-and-it-does" program.

Calling LOGIC "LOGIC" is hugely misleading. Part of my decision to buy the application was based on this asinine marketing ploy. Many of my buds are simply astounded at the terrible functional design of Logic (as it appears their is none).

Instead it should be called "FRUSTRAMUSAGEEK". Plus it sounds German. [;)]

Sorry for the rant, but it's relevant to your decision making. I use LOGIC for it's power not for it's "logic" or it's "friendliness" or it's "efficiency". The choice for seq is dependent on your desires and needs. If all you desire is POWER than LOGIC cannot be beat. But just try to remember that POWER is all your buying. The rest will be hard work.

Evan Evans

Many thanks for the seasoned advice.

1) I realized if I want to use a 1.8 gig iMac G5 for DP4 while running Giga for samples, the Mac might choke if I throw in an Altiverb and some tracks.

So I started thinking a dual G5/DP4/Kontact.

2) Since no one has mentioned it, I suppose Kontact is out of the running?
I realise there are no plans to support it beyond Horizon, but Opus 1 might do me(?) and allow running one 2.5 G5dual, thus staying all Mac.

3) BTW, does anyone rack a Mac in 2 spaces? My old racked Mac took 3 spaces (or was it 4? [plus 2 more of the same size for 2 Gigas---which I never really delved into, just dumped the outputs into a 2408])...not something you'd ever want to carry in a mobile set.

cheers/blessings,

dnb

ps Glad to know LOGIC is 'counter-intuitive'. I don't need a whole lot of tracking/mixing power, but you stirred my curiosity; what kind of power is it that LOGIC has to cause you to endure it?

@Another User said:

ps Glad to know LOGIC is 'counter-intuitive'. I don't need a whole lot of tracking/mixing power, but you stirred my curiosity; what kind of power is it that LOGIC has to cause you to endure it?

- Number of simultaneous streams (EXS or Audio)
- offline faster than realtime mixdown (6 minute surround mix done in 1 minute! All stems!)
- Near zero overhead for AU use (DP4 uses way too much overhead)
- Support for the VSL tool on MAC

The rest is negative ... starting with the friggin' dongle. [;)]

Evan Evans

No reason why you can't run Kontakt on the mac as well. You've got lot's of processing power there. You will have the best of both worlds.

Dave Connor

Very kind of you guys to help a newcomer.

I was assuming the iMac would be a bit short of the full production task, thus the questions re G5 dual. (I actually intended to use the iMac only for simple live gigs because of the single package. But, hey, if it will do the production as well, wonderful!

I'll go ahead and get the 1.8 gig (with faster buss) as opposed to the 1.6.

I'll be a tester and see how far I can get with the iMac and report back.

Opus 1/Kontakt is reported to be shipping "this fall" or "in a few weeks"...great news!

For medium/light-weight work like mine, this may be a very nice/portable rig.
If it all works out, I'll not be able to sleep 'till Chamber Strings, etc. are released for Kontakt.

cheers/blessings,

dnb

i too am using DP as my main axe triggering EXS in Logic on a second mac.
so far so good. as i am SPDIFed into an O3d i have no problems with latency. at this point i am testing several macs (cube 450, Tibook 1 gig and cube 1.2gig) to see which one works the best. as i am a cube fan and it is quiet, if i can get it to do the job then that is what i will use. so far so good.
As i can't stand the Logic interface i am trying to do the least interaction with it.

ron

Someone needs to say it here: I like Logic very much, despite its initially awkward interface. I'm not saying it's better or worse than DP as a sequencer (because I don't think one is better than the other - and I have both), but it does have some excellent features for dealing with large libraries - advantages that I'm way too lazy to post again.

Too much dissing here for me!

Nick.

At least in my case, what I'm dissing here is someone tackling a new sequencing program when they are already familiar with a very good one. Particularly when they are facing a few learning curves already and can achieve their aims with much less hassle. I've considered going over to Logic myself so it's not like I hate the program, but I'll stay with DP for now for the same reasons I recomended to dnb.

Don't I owe you a salad?

Dave Connor

I agree with that: don't try to switch sequencers when you have to finish five hours of music by the morning.

But at least one nameless person (whose name is Evan Evans) was twitching at the very mention of Logic's name, so I appointed myself the official job of saying that there are people who really like Logic even though it's not perfect.

The perfect sequencer would have 1/4 of Logic, DP, Nuendo, and Pro Tools - the best quarter of each. And no bugs, and instant feature updates every time someone requests one. [:)]

Salad is good.

@Another User said:

The perfect sequencer would have 1/4 of Logic, DP, Nuendo, and Pro Tools - the best quarter of each. And no bugs, and instant feature updates every time someone requests one. [:)]

Wow, you obviously never tried StudioVisionPro. Feature updates came so fast we were worried that the programming team had too much time on their hand and they were going to go BANKRUPT! By the last version there were no more bugs than any other finely programmed OS9 proggy. And it was so good that it had 0% of all those apps you mentioned. That's how good it was. It didn't need to steal or copy. it was pure originality.

Evan Evans

I tried SVP, in fact I still have it.

But I was limiting my list to live programs.

I still keep a copy around on a machine running OS8 to do advanced MIDI editing - the generated sequences feature is something I've used a lot, and the way you can paste MIDI info between sequences using the pitch information of one and the rhythm of another is FANTASTIC. I don't think this can be done in other sequencers (but I don't know DP - is it possible?)

Will anyone resurrect this programme?

best,
John

Nick,

Ok. [;)] Fair enough.

Evan Evans

@evanevans said:

Wow, you obviously never tried StudioVisionPro. Feature updates came so fast we were worried that the programming team had too much time on their hand and they were going to go BANKRUPT! By the last version there were no more bugs than any other finely programmed OS9 proggy. And it was so good that it had 0% of all those apps you mentioned. That's how good it was. It didn't need to steal or copy. it was pure originality.

Evan Evans

I couldn't agree more Evan. I was dedicated SVP user from '91 until they pulled the plug. It was a sad day when I forced to move. I first went to Logic, did one film in logic (pulled my hair out the entire time) and although I did use the notation in Logic to print out score parts for orchestra, and it was pretty good at that, it was a painful experience. I spent more time stumbling around a million menus looking for simple commands than writing. I was so exhausted by the experience that I started looking for something else.
That drove me to use DP, which even on my first use was quick and easy. Man I wish other progs worked as well as SVP did.

TripIt,

I feel your pain. DP is the second most logical sequencer out there (behind SVP). it's pretty darn good, but it still takes an extra click or two to do what was one click or no click (hover) in SVP.

If someone could've gotten me the core code to SVP I am sure by now I could have ported it to OSX. Actually I have gotten all the way to the tracks window ready to sequence with it in OSX before (in classic mode). There were probably just some extra libraries and some class exceptions that needed to be trapped and I could have had it running in OSX.

I have been left at sea. Trying to stay alive by hanging onto an oil tanker that's leaking. Ever searching for my salvation. keep your fingers crossed about LOGIC 7. Maybe it will be a big step in the right direction.

Evan Evans