I used VSL and I found when the violins are played high, it listened very "Thin", not "Rich". I mean, I don't know how to make it listened like a "Violins Section".And other strings section has the same problem with me.
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How to make the strings Large?
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Read Mr. Dietz topic downstairs...
Postet by
Evan Evans:
40hz, Q=narrow, -9db
110hz, Q=narrow, +1db,
205hz, Q=narrow, -1db
380 hz, Q=wide, +2.5db
2.6khz, Q=medium/narrow, -0.8db
4.7Khz, Q=medium/narrow, -1.7db
7Khz, Q=narrow, -2.5db
EQ settings that make the strings umm, I don't remember but try!
YWT, use hall effect (reverb) and eq settings...
When people ask these questions, have you tried adding reverb and eq? Or do you just think the strings should hear like this and that as dry samples? no offence. Just wondering
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How many violins are playing YWT?
It's not just violins that are sounding large on string cues, the double bass playing along with the strings helps alot. but strings alone,hmmm...
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Maybe the name double bass is confusing here, haha - they are not for doubling the strings, lol. [:D]
I'd suggest to leave the CBS to play bass lines and not let them interfere with the string melodies [[;)]]
Have you tried the common orchestration techniques for doubling with woodwinds, in the appropriate ranges? V1 and V2 in octaves? et etc... Very often in louder pieces you hardly hear the doubling with woodwinds, but it sure thickens and enriches the sound.
Check the favorite orchestration books like Adler and Rimsky-Korsakov for good combinations.
I am absolutely not sure about those EQ settings. Evan Evans admitted he just made them up while posting. And, EQ-ing is an art you will have to learn to master yourself. This may be a good starting point, although probably a bit arbitrary.
Then there is the reverb/ambience. If you apply a good impulse reverb (not too long) you will find that it really enriches the strings sound. I suggest to add a short pre-delay like 30-40 msec, if it is not already in the impulse. This will prevent some "smearing" or muddiness and keep the strings well articulated, so that you can apply a little bit more than without pre-delay. If you have impulse convolution plugin, you should also try out the "sampled" hardware units, like the Lexicon PCM90 and 480. Some programs are really very good for strings.
Success,
Peter
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I have these effects attached to my V 1 track
mix: Waves S1 Stereo Imager
AUX: Cakewalk Chorus and IR-1 Convolution Reverb
Just like what Dietz said in the "Mix hint for strings" thread.
The Midi files and the orchestration are alright. V1 played higher notes while V2 played lower and the higher notes. Just alright. I have written it according to the original score for practice.
But the sound when i mix it in sampitude did listened "thin".
I have just viewed the post in the "Vienna Symphonic Library" section and see the complete instrument list and MIDI file by Andy.B. In the instrument list it said that the Violins had been "Doubled by custom samples". Does it means only the VSL's Violin Ensemble is not enough to make it "rich"?
YWT
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As I wrote in the other thread: "Large" is a question of arrangement and clever voicing in the first place. Just one line, using one dynamic layer and a single, straight expression won't necessarily work.
"EQ-Presets" won't work either, as the specific requirements will change from piece to piece; just take them as a guidline where to start, trust you own ears (or the ears of a professional). - Reverb is a good tool to add "depth", but actually it is not _that_ necessary for a "lush" string-arrangement. Listen to the excerpt of Kuno Schmid's Elegia, for example. There's just a tad of room and reverb added to this very smooth section.
I know - simple solutions would be nice, but there ain't, if you go for the real thing ...
HTH,
/Dietz -Vienna Symphonic Library
/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library -
@YWT said:
The Midi files and the orchestration are alright. V1 played higher notes while V2 played lower and the higher notes. Just alright. I have written it according to the original score for practice.
But the sound when i mix it in sampitude did listened "thin".
Only V1 and V2 won´t necesseraly sound "large".
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The arrangement is the following:
1st Violins, 2nd Violins, Violas, Cellos, Basses, Oboe, Flute, Clarinet, 2 Horn ensembles, Trumpet Ensemble, Trombone Ensemble and Percussions.
I have used the Strings Collection from Sonic Implants to double the violins. It listened good. I think when really composed, the violins should be different, so add other samples may add the realistic of the ensembles. Just like Andy B. used the custom samples to doubled the VSL.
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No matter what, it did worked.
And I think(or I heard) that the strings are not listened "thin".
Also I have adjust the Predelay to 35 ms for the violins and some more for other strings. May be this is the key? I don't know. I'm just trying.
But I had to say, VSL is the BEST. Even if it need to be "Doubled", it is in the main position. And the added samples(or track, I used the Sonic Implants strings to rerender the V1 and added it to the mix. I haven't modify the VSL itself) are only to help.
May be I am too inexperienced to make full use of VSL, but I will learn to do so, and someday be exprienced.
Thank you everyone, and thanks Dietz.
/YWT
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I do hope that people aren't pinning their hopes on MIR fixing everything... the virtual orchestra still needs good orchestration, as a real orchestra. Real orchestras sound thin and weedy if the right notes aren't on the page - and this can't be fixed in the mix.
still - I can just hear the unjustified complaints now... =D
Peter
BTW - I'm looking forward to MIR like you wouldn't believe!
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come on,
MIR is gonna make me be able to slam my hand on the keyboard and make a masterpiece!! [[;)]]
10 voice chord on the keyboard with all the strings assigned ot the same MIDI channel, That will be huge [[;)]]
YWT,
try layering a solo violin or two over the top, it may help it sound more "lush" with the added vibrato.
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I don't know if this has already been suggested yet, but when I have high violin parts, I play an octive lower at the same time I play the high parts. So really, I'm playing the same part over two, or maybe even three octives. It makes the strings sound richer and fuller because it spreads the sound over a broader range than just "very high". AND Good reverb really helps!
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YWT, I too use the sonic implants strings with VSL (great combination) and I'm curious to know if you use any reverb or effects on the SI strings.
Someone suggested to put a violin solo over the strings or to play the same line twice two or three octaves lower, that's exactly what I usually do when I want a violin section to sound richer. So, I really can't give any more suggestions other than that.
As far as reverb, I'm not really and expert so, sorry.
